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Writing

mDarkPoet
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Posted 06/21/07 - 07:43 PM: Subject: Writing	#1
As a writer I've observed an interesting process in the way stories, or poetry, come to be written down. I am sure my way of writing is not shared by the majority of authors and poets, however I find it interesting. Writing is the mind's conversations on page. Basically when I am writing on paper or typing on the computer I am essentially transferring the words that are inside of my mind to a place where they can be read by others, making them available instead of usual thoughts that are there then dissapear. When writing my poetry I find I just write, that all conscious thought is gone and that I am vaguely aware of what I am writing, or what my mind is saying. Poetry and writing are conveying images as well. Inside the mind of every writer are specific images, upon re-reading by others can be interpreted however the reader wishes, which is why I deplore television and prefer reading, having the freedom of creating images that appeal to me. Painting is similar to writing, except instead of words an artist will transfer images and thoughts into pictures. Music is like poetry, but with an extra bonus of having beats and sounds to inspire emotions, so not only conveying thoughts and images but emotions as well.
_____________________ "This Is Not About Age, Time Served On The Earth Doesn't Mean You Grow In Mind"

Dr. Tyko Glas
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Posted 06/24/07 - 11:41 AM:	#2
As Nietzsche wrote: "When his book opens its mouth, the author must shut his." A writer should never direct the hidden meaning behind any of his/her writing, just leave it to be reviewed, criticized, heckled or embraced. Art is in no need of truth other than as a mirage or hallucination. The images belong to the reader, whereas the writer takes the position of a "dead god." Furthermore, I wish to quote Zamyatin: "True literature can be created only by madmen, hermits, heretics, dreamers, rebels, and skeptics." P.S. It's C.O. and thanks again for the link, Dark Poet.
_____________________ "Jag tror på köttets lust och själens obotliga ensamhet" (Hjalmar Söderberg).

Anima
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Posted 06/27/07 - 10:29 PM:	#3
Well when I write, I usually get a verse, or more often a single line stuck in my head. It can come from anything from being angry, or just hearing a good piece of wisdom worded well. The line or verse kind of starts to manifest it self in my head until it becomes something I can work with on paper. Once I get it on paper I start to play around with it, adding and subtracting, and moving stuff around until I am content for the time being. Then I wait a while until it comes up again while I'm browsing through my notebook, and which point I rewrite it it, doing the same process of adding and subtracting, and moving stuff around. This happens several times until I am fully content that I can do more with it until my skill increases. I totally agree with Dr. Glas in that the hidden meaning should be just that, hidden, and left to the reader to figure out.
_____________________ A child's rhyme stuck in my head. It said that life is but a dream. I've spent so many years in question to find I've known this all along.

KidSick7
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Posted 07/03/07 - 04:26 PM: Subject: good technique	#4
I had a great poetry teacher in high school who taught me how to write poetry. The key concepts that I picked up upon were: 1. to leave out as many conjuctions as possible (most important of all (poems with too many conjuctions are not good poems)) 2. to lean towards the concrete and not to use words like time, infinite, universe etc... 3. use the imagination to create surreal percieveable imagery 4. excite the reader 5. Use transitions in tone and subject eh this is what i go by, pretty much. but sometimes... and then, but sometimes... ...it just flows

Nebula
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Posted 07/07/07 - 01:43 AM:	#5
I've contemplated, many times, the nature of writing and the privilege of taking down unique thought through a tangible formation that is perceivable to others. Of course, however, it holds connotations that can be lost endlessly in interpretations or just the sheer lack of knowledge of each individual's experiences. But I do stand by the idea of allowing art to be interpreted, criticized, bashed, loved, and respected for its ambiguity, and its ability to mean something different to each set of eyes. I love writing myself, and, among a few other things, cannot see a greater gift to mankind.
_____________________ "Metaphor for a missing moment. Pull me into your perfect circle."

Superlutheran
Christian Philosopher

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Posted 07/27/07 - 02:05 PM:	#6
What power is there at man's disposal that can match language? I think none. That one can communicate through the ages with any number of people is enough alone to be matchless. What I set down on paper can be read by anyone as long as the paper endures, and if it is published and enough people read it and keep it, then my words can resound generations later! That is real power. Consider the greatest thinkers and reformers, all were excellent writers! Writing, as an artform, inspires more art of other modes than any others combined! The written word has the ability to trump even mathematical logic! Writing is the very greatest form of art and the greatest form of intellectual persuit, for composition and the application of ideas is the sweetest produce of learning.
_____________________ It is by faith through grace that we are saved.

philosofear
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Posted 07/27/07 - 02:09 PM:	#7
superlutheran wrote: The written word has the ability to trump even mathematical logic! Sorry to burst your bubble but math is not art...
_____________________ "The unexamined life is not worth living" -Socrates

Dr. Tyko Glas
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Posted 07/27/07 - 06:33 PM:	#8
Superlutheran wrote: Writing is the very greatest form of art and the greatest form of intellectual persuit, for composition and the application of ideas is the sweetest produce of learning. I share your zest when it comes to "loving the art of literature," but as far as your conclusion is concerned (regarding the didactic value of literature) I disagree wholeheartedly. Didactic literature is a pain, a bore and a deadly assault on the very essence of beauty; it limits the readers' spectrum in such a way that it almost "quacks" its own vulgarity like a cancerous duck waiting to be put to sleep. By "learning" it purports a picture of a stale, dust-ridden quasi-world - entirely pointless, poor and non-aesthetic.
_____________________ "Jag tror på köttets lust och själens obotliga ensamhet" (Hjalmar Söderberg).

Headon_ist
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Posted 08/09/07 - 03:00 AM:	#9
Other than applying writing to create poetry, I find writing as a form of art restrictive and limiting. Words too often fail the author to express what so easily can be misinterpreted by the reader. Consider the word 'Love'. Not one person relates to this word the same as the next. If only the word is considered, great! But as a reader I am left at the mercy of the author's concept of love, and therefor have no control over my relation to it. I am lead by the author to accept an altered experience. Fictional literature, in my view, has the same detrimental effect as what everyone is generally judging television to have: It strips you of your natural intellectual development and personality and tells you what your relation to love (for instance) should rather be.

nevskey1
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Posted 08/28/07 - 07:09 PM:	#10
Headon ist wrote: "Fictional literature, in my view, has the same detrimental effect as what everyone is generally judging television to have: It strips you of your natural intellectual development and personality and tells you what your relation to love (for instance) should rather be." On the one hand, yes I agree that that can be the case, espescially if you allow literature to have too great an influence on your life so that your natural instincts, personality, and subjective veiwpoint are inhibited and circumscribed by a paralysing "angsiety of influence." (Yes, I can say from experience that Harold Bloom's aesthetic crisis is just as possible in - and, in my veiw, often debilitating to - actual lived life, as well as literary pursuits. (Perhaps my quoting him here serves as an example.)) I would like to mention not only the possibility of that consequence, but also how very unfortunate such a consequence is. To veiw and experience life only through the lens of intellectual and literary ideals is not only sadly limiting, but, I think, dangerously unhealthy. Of course others have made this point before (Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Lawrence, etc.). However, the aincient wisdom never fails: Everything in moderation. Sure, too much intellectual mumbo-jumbo can limit you and your experience in a bad way. But so can too little. If erring on the side of safety, then yes, I would say that instincts and personality are more important. But, if literature is pursued properly, not as some sort of canonical white whale, then it can be very beneficial: it can complement and augment one's natural subjetivity. By making the reader think and reflect, it can fine tune her instincts and challange her personality, which leads to growth and maturation. (This is no doubt influenced by Good Will Hunting, but in reverse) Headon ist meantioned love as an example. Certainly you can't experience love through literature. But you can read Proust and Tolstoy and Lawrence and almost anyother word of prose or poetry (you'll find love in most of it, if not all) and compare your experience and understanding of it to what the authors put forth. Your "dialogue" with them as you reflect on what they write will lead to new developments in your own personality, which will make you more broad minded, and that will allow for richer, more meaningful experience in real life. Also, your discussions about those experiences withothers will become more interesting as, through the influence of literature, you are better able to articulate your thoughts and understand the thoughts of others. I agree that personality comes first, that lived life is the most important. But I don't think you can make such a blanket statement about how bad literature is to it in every way. TV on the other hand... Basically, literature can either overshadow experience, or it can illuminate it. (But then, so can drugs, and alcohol, and passion, and donuts, and whatever else.) It's up to you. May the force be with you. Now, as for writing... Edited by nevskey1 on 08/28/07 - 07:30 PM
_____________________ "I'm going to my room where I can think. You come by later and wake me up." -Chico Marx

twain
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Posted 09/08/07 - 03:45 AM:	#11
philosofear wrote: superlutheran wrote: The written word has the ability to trump even mathematical logic! Sorry to burst your bubble but math is not art... Any pursuit taken to the nth degree becomes an art form.

Allhazred
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Posted 11/10/07 - 09:00 AM:	#12
Well I don't know, when I write my poetry, it comes to me from Elsewhere, I think about what ever I'm thinking at the time and sometimes a little voice pops up and there it is a phrase and if I write it down, I get another untill the voice is finished with me.
_____________________ A lie told often enough becomes the truth. Vladimir Lenin your awareness of the whole is marred by your awareness of that which moves contrary to the whole - the sixth dimension Maybe... if you spend your life worrying... then the only way that your life will have meaning is if what you fear becomes real. - tagline from Sublime

chungle
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Posted 01/09/08 - 03:50 AM:	#13
Poetry for me has always been difficult to write. I find myself moved to write far more words than is needed and lacking in the capacity to sum up a thought into so few syllables. My writing tends to be far more formal. Lyrics are also affected this way; far too many words to fit into a verse. However, I seem to have been blessed with the ability to fill up a chapter faster than I could ever write a haiku. Perhaps it's something I can learn though.

Purist
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Posted 01/15/08 - 06:17 AM:	#14
philosofear wrote: superlutheran wrote: Sorry to burst your bubble but math is not art... I take offense sir! I am a pure mathematician, and in my view it is the purest form of creativity there is. I consider myself an artist, not a scientist. When I create (or resp. discover ) a theorem then the result (resp. path taken towards that result) is done so by reason and reason alone. No happy beats and melodies, pretty images or warm emotions to inspire the mathematician... no! Mathematics touches the core of creativity more so than any other discipline! Edited by Postmodern Beatnik on 01/28/08 - 12:30 PM. Reason: spacing

WinterMuse
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Posted 02/03/08 - 09:04 AM:	#15
"Well I don't know, when I write my poetry, it comes to me from Elsewhere, I think about what ever I'm thinking at the time and sometimes a little voice pops up and there it is a phrase and if I write it down, I get another untill the voice is finished with me. " I sometimes experience this as well, often as I'm drifting to sleep. And I start to feel bad about taking credit for something I've written at times, because it doesn't feel like a creation or something I've put thought into, it doesn't even feel mine. But I wonder if it's just my unconscious speaking to me.
_____________________ "The past is vital. The present is dead"

Hypothesis
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Posted 02/03/08 - 01:13 PM:	#16
I like to write thy thoughts in your mind clearer. It's foggy today, and I don't want to venture out. I could have an accident and trip into you. And we can swap stories about our journeys, and how we almost stayed inside, because of the weather.
_____________________ over and over and over and over and over like a monkey with a miniature cymbal the joy of repetition really is in you - Hot Chip

Allhazred
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Posted 03/19/08 - 11:39 PM:	#17
WinterMuse wrote: I sometimes experience this as well, often as I'm drifting to sleep. And I start to feel bad about taking credit for something I've written at times, because it doesn't feel like a creation or something I've put thought into, it doesn't even feel mine. But I wonder if it's just my unconscious speaking to me. Yes well perhaps its that we are catching our Muses, one by one, like ity-bity drops of dreams, falling from the sky or even just each other. Mind you, though, the subconscious is quite powerfull, like a gale, no lasting power though fits and bursts. Hypothesis wrote: I like to write thy thoughts in your mind clearer. It's foggy today, and I don't want to venture out. I could have an accident and trip into you. And we can swap stories about our journeys, and how we almost stayed inside, because of the weather. Ah twas foggy here just the other day, and when the cloud-veil was lifted, lo and behold the land was covered in water over my proverbial head. So I just read about god in bed
_____________________ A lie told often enough becomes the truth. Vladimir Lenin your awareness of the whole is marred by your awareness of that which moves contrary to the whole - the sixth dimension Maybe... if you spend your life worrying... then the only way that your life will have meaning is if what you fear becomes real. - tagline from Sublime

Fergus Currie
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Posted 03/21/08 - 03:01 AM:	#18
I don't know if I agree with all this lauding of the written word. Plato always asserted that the spoken word was superior to the written word in so much as the speaker had to be present and could thus add to, and expound on his statements if required. Until recently courts of law required a witness to be present in order to give testimony - his written statement was not enough by itself. I think poetry, with the possible exception of E.E. Cummings and his followers is essentially a aural art form. The arrangement on the page into lines and stanzas are more for ease of notation and reproduction and is a mere reflection of the construction rather than the construction itself. There are counter arguments to this hierarchy of spoken over written word as in Derrida's 'On Grammatology' but these rely on the permanency of the written testimony rather than it's intrinsic value. It is nice to be able to read the words of Homer and 'read' the deeds of Egyptian kings thanks to the Rosetta Stone. It is nice to be able to play music 'written' by Bach and Beethoven but oh, how much nicer it would be able to hear J.S. himself play! The sound recording of Elytis reading his Axion Esti (Nobel prize winner) is far more vigorous than just reading the poem. Jacobi reading the Robert Fagles translation of the Iliad is so much more alive than slaving over Homeric Greek parallel translations - I know, I have! Long live Gutenberg's Ghost and what is being called Gutenberg 2 if only they could finish wrangling about charges! On another tack I love writing as an inscriptive art form. Before computers I used to write fine copperplate scores and parts for my compositions. I was very proud of my musical handwriting and still have a few examples lying around but since the advent of home-computer music printing Some of the magic has gone out of the act of producing a beautiful score. I can only hope that this is not reflected in the actual music! Is the same true of poetry and prose? I don't know but some opinions would be interesting to hear. FC
_____________________ ...and so Achilles never reaches the tortoise. ...so never send Achilles to get fags!

Allhazred
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Posted 03/22/08 - 09:48 PM:	#19
Well Fergus this is true about being able to hear all these wonderful peices of literature, and I am of the type that would rather talk and interact with someone face to face, however in my writing, at lease, the 'white space' is quite essential. This arises from the fact that people have a tendency to read like thisInAConjointedContinuousMannerWithoutPausing,EvenIfThereIsABreak. By adding spaces, indentation, et cetera, I force the reader to look for the next line, giving them time to think about what I have writen. As far as the written word vs. the spoken, it really depends upon the desired effect. Do you want something that is static but lasting, say a fire, or would you rather create a brief impression, like a bottle rocket? Used correctly each of these tools is equally valuable. The written word creates the base for relationships between people, while the spoken word allows for the continuation of said base. just a thought flittery things those.
_____________________ A lie told often enough becomes the truth. Vladimir Lenin your awareness of the whole is marred by your awareness of that which moves contrary to the whole - the sixth dimension Maybe... if you spend your life worrying... then the only way that your life will have meaning is if what you fear becomes real. - tagline from Sublime

Cafe Rob
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Posted 03/29/08 - 02:02 PM:	#20
"Fergus Currie" wrote: I don't know if I agree with all this lauding of the written word. Plato always asserted that the spoken word was superior to the written word in so much as the speaker had to be present and could thus add to, and expound on his statements if required. You�ve sort of missed the point haven�t you? I mean even you�re quote from Plato�s �The Republic� would not have been possible without the written word. It would be fine if everyone lived forever but they don�t and someone like Plato only appears once. The other point you make is also not valid really; "Fergus Currie" wrote: There are counter arguments to this hierarchy of spoken over written word as in Derrida's 'On Grammatology' but these rely on the permanency of the written testimony rather than it's intrinsic value. You should remember that there is a huge difference between the intellects of different people. In a conversation much of the significance of an argument would be lost to someone of lesser intelligence, but in written form it allows greater time to assimilate what�s been said.

Fergus Currie
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Posted 04/01/08 - 02:14 AM:	#21
Cafe Rob wrote: You�ve sort of missed the point haven�t you? I mean even you�re quote from Plato�s �The Republic� would not have been possible without the written word. It would be fine if everyone lived forever but they don�t and someone like Plato only appears once. The other point you make is also not valid really; You should remember that there is a huge difference between the intellects of different people. In a conversation much of the significance of an argument would be lost to someone of lesser intelligence, but in written form it allows greater time to assimilate what�s been said. How much nicer it would be to have a conversation with Plato, and Derrida is unfortunately no longer with us too. Maybe they will be arguing together this very moment on such a matter. Now that would be an interesting chat on which to eavesdrop! If you didn't understand it even after reading it a hundred times what would you do given the chance to ask the author? Write him a letter and wait for a reply or talk to him face to face? Be honest, I'd really like to ask Lacan what the f**k he's on about at times! FC
_____________________ ...and so Achilles never reaches the tortoise. ...so never send Achilles to get fags!

Fergus Currie
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Posted 04/01/08 - 02:33 AM:	#22
Please refrain form personalizing your arguments. Address the question and argue for or against the matter in hand. Phrases like 'You've sort of missed the point haven't you?' are not conducive to clear argument since they often lead to escalations of entrenched positions personal prejudice. When one refers to a text in order to support a position this 'alignment' is not considered as a personal expression. Indeed I refer both to Derrida and to Plato so, if anything, my personal position is that of commentator rather than active participant. I do, however, as should we all, include anecdotal material in my posts which can be freely riposted (not reposted, please - riposted!) at any time. After all this is the Forum and, as was custom in the ancient forums, heckling should not only be allowed but encouraged! Thank you. FC
_____________________ ...and so Achilles never reaches the tortoise. ...so never send Achilles to get fags!

Cafe Rob
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Posted 04/02/08 - 12:07 AM:	#23
"Fergus Currie" wrote: Please refrain form personalizing your arguments. Address the question and argue for or against the matter in hand. Please accept my apologies for any misunderstanding, I did not mean anything personal. It was more the point you made, the comparison between the philosophy as a conversational subject and literature.

Fergus Currie
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Posted 04/02/08 - 02:57 AM:	#24
No problem. There are some terrible offenders on this forum who mostly hang out around the religious threads who will launch unwarranted personal attacks at the drop of a hat! Such is the nature of the religious fanatic, even if he is under the cloak of a civilized man. Philosophy is such a pure pursuit but it's nature gives the impression to the casual onlooker of a bickering tooth and nail struggle of personalities which we can so easily be drawn into. The main culprit of course is the peripatetic school of ancient Greece where it is assumed that groups of philosophers would stroll around town engaged in verbal argument. Plato's Socratic dialogues are intended to be read as transcripts of these 'wandering' quibbles. This is why he would rather be involved with the 'real thing' than with just a transcript. Literature is more than a transcript of reported speech. It may contain of course descriptive detail and personal characterizations and other comments of the authors choosing which give it a great advantage in communicating the facts surrounding certain events either factual or fictional. However, to be fair, storytelling must be considered more a feat of memory rather than an artistic activity on a par with composing a novel of a text book on some scientific subject. But please remember that when a child is at school the teachers do not just thrust a primer into his hand demanding that he read; they are required to lecture, explain, elucidate and demonstrate by verbal means, the subject at hand. There is, as I indicated earlier, a case for finding circumstances where one is superior to the other and vice versa. FC
_____________________ ...and so Achilles never reaches the tortoise. ...so never send Achilles to get fags!

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