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Who is the best philosopher and why?
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 Who is the best philosopher and why? | |
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sheps
Tenured Poster  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Dec 15, 2008 Location: The One and The Many Total Topics: 42 Total Posts: 1814
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 #131
lostpainting wrote: When I say she was misunderstood, I refer to the people who go "Oh, Ayn Rand, that bastard who said we should be selfish! She wants us to lie if it helps us get our own way; she'd walk over corpses to make a buck! Haven't you read that Whittaker Chambers review of Atlas Shrugged? Oh, Rand -- hah, she's just a second-rate Nietzsche, you know. Ah, Rand?! You mean that bitch who loves the crony capitalist system we have in place?!" -- So much ignorance surrounding her! I've had conversations with very intelligent people -- some of whom are rather prominent in the world of politics -- who repeat these ridiculous inanities about her. She wrote novels in order to sneak in her own ideas; regardless of their worth, I don't approve of philosophers using the novel form to get their point across under some appealing writing. In the same way, I don't approve of Sartre - philosophy should never be anything more than a literary tool or object of satire in the hands of a novelist, and those novelists who have used their literary talent to get across (at the very least) questionable ideas are not playing by the rules in my book. Philosophy sneaked in under the cover of flowery writing or appealing characters does not give the reader an opportunity to subject the ideas to critical reasoning; they're too often seduced by the prose. Rand is an overhang of the 19th century movement to "free thyself." Kant, Hegel, Marx and Nietzsche also worked towards this fundamentally Romantic aim, except with somewhat more coherent systems and far less of Rand's conformity to the economic, moral and political status quo of her time. Edited by sheps on Mar 10, 2010 - 3:27 AM Every ignoramus imagines all that exists with a view only to his individual cause; it is as if there were nothing that existed except himself. - Maimonides Only what was published had any reality. Esse est percipi (to be is to be photographed) was the beginning, middle and end of our singular idea of the world. - Jorge Luis Borges, from his Utopia Of A Tired Man |
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SittinWSocratesTiff
Tenured Poster  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Nov 02, 2009 Location: Strolling on the Absurd Side of the Street Total Topics: 63 Total Posts: 3047 |
#132
lostpainting wrote: She's terribly misunderstood. To a certain extent, that's her own fault; she was her own worst enemy on the PR front and she didn't know the meaning of being practical. Alas. But her philosophy is life-granting and empowering. And she went back to the classical ideas of system-building, rather than making things narrower and narrower (think Derrida). And her philosophy actually had practical applications for a person's everyday existence -- which arguably hadn't been seen since the Hellenistic era (excluding religious philosophy). Kwalish Kid wrote: Wow. That's a great example of cult reasoning. That is the second time that I have heard the correlation between the "Hellenistic era" as being "cult" in nature. When I was involved in a Hellenistic Philosophy group, I never felt as though it had a cult like nature. It was only when I was able to extract myself from Freddy Nietzsche that it became easier to see. Relax this is a safe place - sipes I don't know and you don't know either - bs To become a point of light is the only way to raise the darkness - no amount of intellect will do it without the fire - unenlightened |
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Kwalish Kid
Tenured Poster Usergroup: Members Joined: Sep 26, 2004 Total Topics: 38 Total Posts: 4289 |
#133
sheps wrote: She wrote novels in order to sneak in her own ideas; regardless of their worth, I don't approve of philosophers using the novel form to get their point across under some appealing writing. In her defence, she wrote mind-numbingly bad novels and her point was glaringly obvious. Probably done with philosophy. Will check PMs from time to time. |
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Kwalish Kid
Tenured Poster Usergroup: Members Joined: Sep 26, 2004 Total Topics: 38 Total Posts: 4289 |
#134
lostpainting wrote: When I say she was misunderstood, I refer to the people who go "Oh, Ayn Rand, that bastard who said we should be selfish! She wants us to lie if it helps us get our own way; she'd walk over corpses to make a buck! Haven't you read that Whittaker Chambers review of Atlas Shrugged? Oh, Rand -- hah, she's just a second-rate Nietzsche, you know. Ah, Rand?! You mean that bitch who loves the crony capitalist system we have in place?!" -- So much ignorance surrounding her! I've had conversations with very intelligent people -- some of whom are rather prominent in the world of politics -- who repeat these ridiculous inanities about her. The problem is that the cartoon version of Rand is actually a better philosopher than the actual Rand. A second-rate Nietzsche would be pretty good. There is a reason you have met very intelligent people who dismiss Rand out of hand; those things that they say about her are not inanities. Probably done with philosophy. Will check PMs from time to time. |
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Benkei
Self-hating Dutchman  Usergroup: Moderators Joined: Feb 06, 2004 Location: Netherlands Total Topics: 84 Total Posts: 2900 |
#135
with very intelligent people -- some of whom are rather prominent in the world of politics -- I see you set your standards high. To most here, that's an oxymoron. 
Obama is humping the pump in an effort to re-inflate an economy that looks more like a balloon with a 55 caliber bullet hole in it. - Joe Bageant |
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JezCave
Assistant Professor  Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 16, 2009 Location: Southern England Total Topics: 22 Total Posts: 377 |
#136
Socrates anyone? Carpe diam. Not to be mistaken with Carpe deum. Cheers Mum. My ipod will always be a reminder of my need to grasp God. |
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sheps
Tenured Poster Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Dec 15, 2008 Location: The One and The Many Total Topics: 42 Total Posts: 1814
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#137
Kwalish Kid wrote: In her defence, she wrote mind-numbingly bad novels and her point was glaringly obvious. Ahem. In my mind, I was thinking more of Tolstoy, Dostoevsky and Sartre. Much better writers than Rand.  Still, philosophy in the 20th century has been a contrast. You have the highly theoretical analytic trends in specialized fields like logic (Russell, Frege), complex language and linguistics (Wittgenstein, Chomsky, Searle), complicated scientific development in physics (Einstein, Planck, de Broglie) and the psycho-analytical Frankfurt School (Marcuse, Adorno). On the other hand, you have the "great popularizers." For example, in evolutionary biology and genetics (Dawkins, Dennett), non-academic agrarian Marxism (Lenin, Trotsky), existentialism (Sartre, de Beauvoir) and the moral philosophers like Rand. Of all these more popular figures, I must say Rand stands out as probably the most discredited these days (not to say that most of the others are discredited at all) With the current economic crisis, she's even more disliked amongst educated people than Lenin; I can't imagine many predicted that at the fall of the Berlin Wall! These are all opinions I realise, lostpainting - I'm sure you know quite a number of people who like Rand. 
Every ignoramus imagines all that exists with a view only to his individual cause; it is as if there were nothing that existed except himself. - Maimonides Only what was published had any reality. Esse est percipi (to be is to be photographed) was the beginning, middle and end of our singular idea of the world. - Jorge Luis Borges, from his Utopia Of A Tired Man |
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sheps
Tenured Poster Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Dec 15, 2008 Location: The One and The Many Total Topics: 42 Total Posts: 1814
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#138
lostpainting wrote: And her philosophy actually had practical applications for a person's everyday existence -- which arguably hadn't been seen since the Hellenistic era (excluding religious philosophy). Utilitarianism? The Marxists? Surely if anything Rand's century has been characterized by Wittgenstein's phrase; that "philosophy is an activity?" Just look at the main figures of the 20th century - Gandhi, King, Guevara, Lenin - and you quickly see that people liked a "man of action." In part, you could even say that's why so many approved of Hitler when he first came to power: here was a man who knew himself, and what he wanted. Even in the philosophical sphere we saw greater action - most people liked (or knew of) Russell not for his brilliance in logic, but more for his pacifism and social activity. There was a bit of a dip in practical application of philosophy amongst the German idealists, but that was a blip; in every era, there has been a group of philosophers who've been highly interested in practical application. Tiff wrote: That is the second time that I have heard the correlation between the "Hellenistic era" as being "cult" in nature. When I was involved in a Hellenistic Philosophy group, I never felt as though it had a cult like nature. It was only when I was able to extract myself from Freddy Nietzsche that it became easier to see. I'm pretty sure KK was referring to the "cult" of Rand here, not the Hellenistic philosophers. The only way I could see the Greeks being regarded as a "cult" is when you still get philosophy professors who occupy themselves with what Plato said, and not with working towards any new developments (that drove the radical views of the Logical Positivists). Hegel obsessed a bit with the likes of Heraclitus, and the social contract theorists worshiped Greek society a little too much, especially considering it was full of slaves. Aside from the Catholic Church's slightly strange adherence to Aristotle, however, it's difficult to identify many "Greek philosophy cults" in the history of philosophy. Most people merely remain amazed at the wonderful character of Socrates, in the same way that many are still inspired by Jesus. Every ignoramus imagines all that exists with a view only to his individual cause; it is as if there were nothing that existed except himself. - Maimonides Only what was published had any reality. Esse est percipi (to be is to be photographed) was the beginning, middle and end of our singular idea of the world. - Jorge Luis Borges, from his Utopia Of A Tired Man |
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Yahadreas
YHDRS  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Location: Awesometown Total Topics: 16 Total Posts: 2630 |
#139
Wittgenstein when it comes to answering most questions about the what is, and Nietzsche when it comes to answering most questions about the how to. Specifically, most questions about the what is give some kind of ontic (to use Heidegger's terminology) status to words/meaning (what is moral?, what is human?, what is natural?), and Wittgenstein's talk of meaning just being word-usage satisfactorily shows this to be wrong and answers these questions (moral is what we call moral, human is what we call human, natural is what we call natural), and most questions about how to (how ought we to live) can be answered with Nietzsche's philosophy on the affirmation of life and the self-creation of personal values. And despite my earlier abhorrence to his work, Heidegger's ideas on Dasein are quite good at explaining the ontological (in the sense in which he uses the word). Squiloople - Just have fun! |
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ciceronianus
Attorney at Natural Law  Usergroup: Members Joined: Sep 20, 2008 Location: USA Total Topics: 18 Total Posts: 1609 Last Blog: On the Death of Death in the Afternoon |
#140
lostpainting wrote: And her philosophy actually had practical applications for a person's everyday existence -- which arguably hadn't been seen since the Hellenistic era (excluding religious philosophy). God's teeth. This just isn't so. Think, e.g., Dewey (who had the distinction of actually being a philosopher). Rand is to philosophy what L. Ron Hubbard is to religion. "Let us not pretend to doubt in philosophy what we do not doubt in our hearts."--C.S. Peirce "There is nothing so absurd but some philosopher has said it."--Marcus Tullius Cicero "Philosophy recovers itself when it ceases to be a device for dealing with the problems of philosophers and becomes a method, cultivated by philosophers, for dealing with the problems of men."--John Dewey |
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