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Who Am I?
What's the Point of Philosophy Without This First?

Who Am I?

peter rabbit
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Posted 10/20/09 - 02:01 AM: Subject: Who Am I?	#1
There are many threads in these forums about the nature of choice, of what constitutes right and wrong, what God is and so forth. I would like to ask what is the point of such discussion without addressing, first of all, who it is that decides? If you ask the mind "who am I?" it will come up with a series of ideas, memories, theories, definitions, words and images. In other words mind will not answer the question "who am I?" but instead will answer a second, unasked, question; "what is mind?" But what is that which is aware of mind? If I ask mind, mind will give me a thought. But what is it that is having this thought? What is the experience of the I that is thinking? Such a question, pointing beyond the thinking self, to the consciousness or awareness of it, is, for the thinking self, troubling. The thinking self prefers to believe that it is "I". When asked questions such as "is there free will?" or "does God exist?" the thinking self will give answers according to what it knows (a scientific answer) or what it wants to know (a religious answer). The experience of the I that is thinking gives quite a different answer; one that is neither one thing nor the other, confusing to the mind yet pleasurable on a deeper level (deeper too than the feelings mind excites), paradoxical, yet simple and practical. The writings of Ludwig Wittgenstein, the Jesus of Thomas, Lao Tzu, Jacob Boehme, Jiddu Krishnamurti, Georg Gurdjieff and others are good examples of minds attempting to describe what is beyond mind; who I am.

unenlightened
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Posted 10/20/09 - 03:07 AM:	#2
I am unenlightened.
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

Banno
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Posted 10/20/09 - 03:24 AM:	#3
I am not unenlightened.
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

Shamantrixx
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Posted 10/20/09 - 04:06 AM:	#4
Banno wrote: I am not unenlightened. I completely agree with your position, but it reminds me on something peculiar... the absurdity of negation. We can negate only that which we know about... so by negating it we come to a position of contradiction. But that contradiction proves to be quite useful indeed. Weird!
Everybody experiences far more than he understands. Yet it is experience, rather than understanding, that influences behavior. Marshall McLuhan

Minyun
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Posted 10/20/09 - 04:25 AM:	#5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_theology

longfun
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Posted 10/20/09 - 04:32 AM:	#6
Shamantrixx wrote: I completely agree with your position, but it reminds me on something peculiar... the absurdity of negation. We can negate only that which we know about... so by negating it we come to a position of contradiction. But that contradiction proves to be quite useful indeed. Weird! As in you don't see feel hear, smell etc.., but rather you project all those things in to the apparent outside, the outside which isn't. i Compare it to the use of a virtual costume, enabling you to feel hear and move see and smell. but you are not there, or better said your virtual reality is not there, you projected it.
I'm Long and I'm playing the greatest game of all.

wuliheron
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Posted 10/20/09 - 04:37 AM:	#7
The lights are on, but nobody's home. Left to its own devices the mind does not compulsively think about questions like who, what, where, why, or when. It simply goes from A to B as needed and stops. It is the ego that motivates all this compulsive thinking, like an addict endlessly in search of their next fix, while the mind simply accepts the novelty of each moment (including that of the ego) as it presents itself. Only you can answer the question of who you are or, better yet, simply accept who you are as you change from one moment to the next.

peter rabbit
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Posted 10/20/09 - 05:16 AM:	#8
unenlightened wrote: I am unenlightened. By this do you mean that you have no spiritual insight, that you are a normal man with normal fears, doubts, anxieties, confusions, greeds, habits, depressions, excitements, expectations and disappointments? wuliheron wrote: Only you can answer the question of who you are or, better yet, simply accept who you are as you change from one moment to the next. There are four "I"s here. Only "I" can answer the question of who "I" am, or better accept who "I" am as "I" change from one moment to the next. Are you suggesting there are four "I"s in here? Or three? Or thousands? Clearly there are thousands of I voices, but who is experiencing them?

unenlightened
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Posted 10/20/09 - 05:49 AM:	#9
peter rabbit wrote: I wrote: I am unenlightened. By this do you mean that you have no spiritual insight, that you are a normal man with normal fears, doubts, anxieties, confusions, greeds, habits, depressions, excitements, expectations and disappointments? Something like that. Is it at all possible that there would be some answer to this question that you pose that is not a thought? If this were not a virtual world, I could slap your face for your impudence, but as it is, a thought is all you can hope for I'm afraid. So I also meant it quite generally of any 'I', and in denial of, for example: Banno wrote: I am not unenlightened. Indeed, if you look at the general run of discussions round here, you will find that unenlightened and Banno are quite often of one mind.
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

Minyun
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Posted 10/20/09 - 06:02 AM:	#10
Who are we? If it had answer, would it be the same?

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