"When you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." : Philosophy Forums

Philosophy Forums » General Philosophy » "When you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." » "When you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you."

"When you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you."

Page: 1 2 3

"When you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you."

180 Proof
kynic

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Apr 27, 2003
Location: NOTHINGlifeNOTHING

Total Topics: 84
Total Posts: 5115

Posted 03/29/07 - 08:34 AM: Subject: "When you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you."	#1
Describe (do not define) "the abyss." Is the abyss an illusion (i.e. mirage)? Does the abyss lead to "nihilism" or "nihilism" expose us to the abyss? How do any (or all) of the following help and/or hinder coping with (i.e making one's life significant in spite of) the abyss: Religion (or mysticism)? Explain. Philosophy (or skepticism)? Explain. Science? Explain. Art? Explain. Morals? Explain. History? Explain. Political-economics? Explain. Love? Explain. Pleasure? Explain. Other? Explain. Edited by 180 Proof on 03/29/07 - 11:24 AM. Reason: oops ...
The question isn't "Which explanations do I believe?" but rather "Which explanations do I least disbelieve?" Absence of evidence THAT MUST BE THERE (i.e. implied by any claim, concept, or (its) predicates, that affects changes in/to the world) entails evidence of absence. [What cannot be done?[What cannot be hoped?[What cannot be known?]]]

rabeldin
Probabalistic Philosopher

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 06, 2003
Location: Puerto Rico

Total Topics: 29
Total Posts: 5427

Posted 03/29/07 - 09:56 AM:	#2
The personification of the abyss is clearly a poetic strategy. Without a magical poet's hat, I can say no more.
Leave no assumption unquestioned.

teleplasm
Aspirant

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 03, 2007

Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 39

Posted 03/29/07 - 11:21 AM:	#3
I think it's you who has the explaining to do, 180 Proof.

Reformed Nihilist
Oblong

Usergroup: Moderators
Joined: Jul 15, 2004
Location: The mighty fortress of the north

Total Topics: 68
Total Posts: 7921

Posted 03/29/07 - 12:09 PM:	#4
180 Proof wrote: Describe (do not define) "the abyss." It is the hat-rack on which to hang our habit of anxiety on when we are not using it. Is the abyss an illusion (i.e. mirage)? To some. Are the visions you see in a lucid dream or an acid trip where you know they aren't real, illusions? It is something our mind can imagine. When we stare into the abyss, we are simply using our imaginations exclusive of our other faculties. Does the abyss lead to "nihilism" or "nihilism" expose us to the abyss? Neither. Nihilism is like becoming an acid freak. It comes from an over dependence on imagination. How do any (or all) of the following help and/or hinder coping with (i.e making one's life significant in spite of) the abyss: Religion (or mysticism)? Explain. The only thing that can fill an imaginary void is an imaginary being/object. Philosophy (or skepticism)? Explain. Depends. It either attempts to fill the abyss with words (and usually fails to fill anything for most), or simply renames the abyss. When we don't call it "the abyss", but instead call it a hat rack, it's no big deal if it stares back at you. It's no big deal at all. Science? Explain. Art? Explain. Morals? Explain. History? Explain. Political-economics? Explain. Love? Explain. Pleasure? Explain. Other? Explain. All of these others don't actually have anything to do with the abyss, they have to do with anxiety. Morals, history, science, love, pleasure and any number of other pursiuts are means to a relief of anxiety, but are (at their best) a means to the relief of a specific anxiety (art, love and maybe morals are less specific than the rest).
Nobody ever became a famous philosopher by being a champion of ecumenical hybridism Daniel Dennett Freedom Evolves

Epilogas
Floating Dust

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Dec 28, 2004
Location: Lithuania

Total Topics: 8
Total Posts: 257

Posted 03/29/07 - 12:23 PM:	#5
"The abyss" is world without limits, comfort. IMHO, it is possible to understand the quote by relating it to the whole philosophy of Nietzsche. Somewhere he writes, man makes world his own mirror. I think, "abyss" and "you" is the same. Diverting your sight into abyss determine deeper abyss penetration into you. Nietzsche thinks world is not an illusion. The abyss is most real. Deep contemplation exposes abyss, which leeds to freedom. You don't need to cope with the abyss, becouse you coused it or more correctly you and abyss are the same. Abyss vanquish not only religion, but all beliefs also. There's no more comfort, rest, peace. It gives freedom of action without moral limitations. It is deeper than love and more overwhelming than suffering.

mutemaler
Professor

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jun 17, 2006

Total Topics: 8
Total Posts: 664

Posted 03/29/07 - 12:47 PM:	#6
Nietzsche and Zhuangzi paused, stepped off of Cliff's Edge into the pointlessness of universal or absolute meaning. "Bottomless!!", cried Nietzsche in despair, overcome with existential angst, the sensation of vertigo, of nothingness! And plunged head first into the a-byss. "Weightless!!", exclaimed Zhuangzi delighted, freed from Convention "And if an abyss is bottomless, there is no falling!" And watched Cliff's Edge floating a-way. mm Edited by mutemaler on 03/29/07 - 02:17 PM

Stormtalk
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 25, 2007

Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 21

Posted 03/29/07 - 01:03 PM:	#7
mutemaler - Where's that from? It's very good.

mutemaler
Professor

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jun 17, 2006

Total Topics: 8
Total Posts: 664

1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 03/29/07 - 01:14 PM:	#8
Stormtalk wrote: mutemaler - Where's that from? It's very good. It is adapted from a section in "A Daoist Theory of Chinese Thought", by Chad Hansen. mute Here is the original text. How does my adaption fare? "A parallel comparison helps to capture the similarities between existentialism (especially Nietzsche's) and Daoism (especially Zhuangzi's). Both discover the practical pointlessness of universal or absolute meaning (purpose). Nietzsche, from his perspective as a disappointed Christian yearning for absolute, transcendent, dependence on God, experiences this awareness with existentialist angst, a sensation of look of a cliff into a bottomless abyss. The angst is caused by the vertigo impulse, the fear we will jump or drop off our perch into that nothingness. Zhuangzi, from his Daoist sense of the constraint of conventional authority, does not think of any cliff as a reference point. If the abyss is bottomless, then there is no such thing as falling. The cliff and Zhuangzi are both floating free. Leaving the cliff and entering the abyss is weightlessness -- free flight -- not falling. From his relativistic perspective, the cliff is floating away. Zhuangzi's reaction is not "Oh no!" but "Whee!" Edited by mutemaler on 03/29/07 - 02:13 PM

loveofsophia
Endeavor to Understand

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Apr 02, 2006
Location: Near Madison in Wisconsin

Total Topics: 46
Total Posts: 728

Posted 03/29/07 - 07:10 PM:	#9
I second the motion, "Wheeee!"
It is amazing how susceptible to lies we are when young. I believe people are still far more susceptible to lies as adults than they would like. Balancing what could be, our imaginings, with what we know, this is a delicate act of mind.

Ibrahim
seeker of nothing

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Location: Washington State, USA

Total Topics: 28
Total Posts: 374

Posted 03/29/07 - 07:28 PM:	#10
mutemaler wrote: It is adapted from a section in "A Daoist Theory of Chinese Thought", by Chad Hansen. mute Here is the original text. How does my adaption fare? "A parallel comparison helps to capture the similarities between existentialism (especially Nietzsche's) and Daoism (especially Zhuangzi's). Both discover the practical pointlessness of universal or absolute meaning (purpose). Nietzsche, from his perspective as a disappointed Christian yearning for absolute, transcendent, dependence on God, experiences this awareness with existentialist angst, a sensation of look of a cliff into a bottomless abyss. The angst is caused by the vertigo impulse, the fear we will jump or drop off our perch into that nothingness. Zhuangzi, from his Daoist sense of the constraint of conventional authority, does not think of any cliff as a reference point. If the abyss is bottomless, then there is no such thing as falling. The cliff and Zhuangzi are both floating free. Leaving the cliff and entering the abyss is weightlessness -- free flight -- not falling. From his relativistic perspective, the cliff is floating away. Zhuangzi's reaction is not "Oh no!" but "Whee!" Brilliant formulation, but i beg to differ. Nietzsche was THE philosopher of affirmation and laughter, and the overman " Dances over the abyss"--TSZ The attitude you describe above is much closer to Sartre's existentialism.
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh"--Nietzsche

Page: 1 2 3

Sorry, you don't have permission to post. Log in, or register if you haven't yet.