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"When you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you."
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180 Proof
kynic  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Apr 27, 2003 Location: reason's raggedy edge ... Total Topics: 110 Total Posts: 6042 |
 #1
Subject: "When you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." Describe (do not define) "the abyss." Is the abyss an illusion (i.e. mirage)? Does the abyss lead to "nihilism" or "nihilism" expose us to the abyss? How do any (or all) of the following help and/or hinder coping with (i.e making one's life significant in spite of) the abyss: Religion (or mysticism)? Explain. Philosophy (or skepticism)? Explain. Science? Explain. Art? Explain. Morals? Explain. History? Explain. Political-economics? Explain. Love? Explain. Pleasure? Explain. Other? Explain. Edited by 180 Proof on Mar 29, 2007 - 12:24 PM. Reason: oops ... the where of space? the when of time? the edge of an unbounded surface? the cause of causality? willing separate from acting? disembodied personality? symphony without orchestra? ideal reality? real concepts? 'higher truth' via contradiction? non-propositional truths? context-free questions? unconditional objects? maps which transcend their terrain? the truth of logic? facts indistinguishable from fictions? answering questions with mysteries? anthropomorphic unknowns? ... o_O only placebos require 'faith'. THINKING won't kill you, but it might make you stronger! |
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rabeldin
Probabalistic Philosopher  Usergroup: Members Joined: Oct 06, 2003 Location: Puerto Rico Total Topics: 29 Total Posts: 5427 |
#2
The personification of the abyss is clearly a poetic strategy. Without a magical poet's hat, I can say no more. Leave no assumption unquestioned. |
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teleplasm
Aspirant Usergroup: Members Joined: Mar 03, 2007 Total Topics: 0 Total Posts: 39 |
#3
 I think it's you who has the explaining to do, 180 Proof. |
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Reformed Nihilist
Oblong  Usergroup: Missing Mods Joined: Jul 15, 2004 Location: The mighty fortress of the north Total Topics: 68 Total Posts: 7921 |
#4
180 Proof wrote: Describe (do not define) "the abyss." It is the hat-rack on which to hang our habit of anxiety on when we are not using it. Is the abyss an illusion (i.e. mirage)? To some. Are the visions you see in a lucid dream or an acid trip where you know they aren't real, illusions? It is something our mind can imagine. When we stare into the abyss, we are simply using our imaginations exclusive of our other faculties. Does the abyss lead to "nihilism" or "nihilism" expose us to the abyss? Neither. Nihilism is like becoming an acid freak. It comes from an over dependence on imagination. How do any (or all) of the following help and/or hinder coping with (i.e making one's life significant in spite of) the abyss: Religion (or mysticism)? Explain. The only thing that can fill an imaginary void is an imaginary being/object. Philosophy (or skepticism)? Explain. Depends. It either attempts to fill the abyss with words (and usually fails to fill anything for most), or simply renames the abyss. When we don't call it "the abyss", but instead call it a hat rack, it's no big deal if it stares back at you. It's no big deal at all. Science? Explain. Art? Explain. Morals? Explain. History? Explain. Political-economics? Explain. Love? Explain. Pleasure? Explain. Other? Explain. All of these others don't actually have anything to do with the abyss, they have to do with anxiety. Morals, history, science, love, pleasure and any number of other pursiuts are means to a relief of anxiety, but are (at their best) a means to the relief of a specific anxiety (art, love and maybe morals are less specific than the rest). Nobody ever became a famous philosopher by being a champion of ecumenical hybridism Daniel Dennett Freedom Evolves |
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Epilogas
Floating Dust  Usergroup: Members Joined: Dec 28, 2004 Location: Lithuania Total Topics: 8 Total Posts: 257 |
#5
"The abyss" is world without limits, comfort. IMHO, it is possible to understand the quote by relating it to the whole philosophy of Nietzsche. Somewhere he writes, man makes world his own mirror. I think, "abyss" and "you" is the same. Diverting your sight into abyss determine deeper abyss penetration into you. Nietzsche thinks world is not an illusion. The abyss is most real. Deep contemplation exposes abyss, which leeds to freedom. You don't need to cope with the abyss, becouse you coused it or more correctly you and abyss are the same. Abyss vanquish not only religion, but all beliefs also. There's no more comfort, rest, peace. It gives freedom of action without moral limitations. It is deeper than love and more overwhelming than suffering. |
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mutemaler
Professor  Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 17, 2006 Total Topics: 8 Total Posts: 945 |
#6
Nietzsche and Zhuangzi paused, stepped off of Cliff's Edge into the pointlessness of universal or absolute meaning. "Bottomless!!", cried Nietzsche in despair, overcome with existential angst, the sensation of vertigo, of nothingness! And plunged head first into the a-byss. "Weightless!!", exclaimed Zhuangzi delighted, freed from Convention "And if an abyss is bottomless, there is no falling!" And watched Cliff's Edge floating a-way. mm Edited by mutemaler on Mar 29, 2007 - 3:17 PM |
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Stormtalk
banned Usergroup: Members Joined: Mar 25, 2007 Total Topics: 1 Total Posts: 21 |
#7
mutemaler - Where's that from? It's very good. |
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mutemaler
Professor Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 17, 2006 Total Topics: 8 Total Posts: 945 |
#8
Stormtalk wrote: mutemaler - Where's that from? It's very good. It is adapted from a section in "A Daoist Theory of Chinese Thought", by Chad Hansen. mute Here is the original text. How does my adaption fare?  "A parallel comparison helps to capture the similarities between existentialism (especially Nietzsche's) and Daoism (especially Zhuangzi's). Both discover the practical pointlessness of universal or absolute meaning (purpose). Nietzsche, from his perspective as a disappointed Christian yearning for absolute, transcendent, dependence on God, experiences this awareness with existentialist angst, a sensation of look of a cliff into a bottomless abyss. The angst is caused by the vertigo impulse, the fear we will jump or drop off our perch into that nothingness. Zhuangzi, from his Daoist sense of the constraint of conventional authority, does not think of any cliff as a reference point. If the abyss is bottomless, then there is no such thing as falling. The cliff and Zhuangzi are both floating free. Leaving the cliff and entering the abyss is weightlessness -- free flight -- not falling. From his relativistic perspective, the cliff is floating away. Zhuangzi's reaction is not "Oh no!" but "Whee!" Edited by mutemaler on Mar 29, 2007 - 3:13 PM |
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loveofsophia
Endeavor to Understand  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Apr 02, 2006 Location: Near Madison in Wisconsin Total Topics: 49 Total Posts: 765 |
#9
I second the motion, "Wheeee!" Explain the difference between what we know and what we imagine. Life is learning to walk your talk. |
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Ibrahim
seeker of nothing  Usergroup: Members Joined: Jul 10, 2006 Location: Washington State, USA Total Topics: 28 Total Posts: 374 |
#10
mutemaler wrote: It is adapted from a section in "A Daoist Theory of Chinese Thought", by Chad Hansen. mute Here is the original text. How does my adaption fare? "A parallel comparison helps to capture the similarities between existentialism (especially Nietzsche's) and Daoism (especially Zhuangzi's). Both discover the practical pointlessness of universal or absolute meaning (purpose). Nietzsche, from his perspective as a disappointed Christian yearning for absolute, transcendent, dependence on God, experiences this awareness with existentialist angst, a sensation of look of a cliff into a bottomless abyss. The angst is caused by the vertigo impulse, the fear we will jump or drop off our perch into that nothingness. Zhuangzi, from his Daoist sense of the constraint of conventional authority, does not think of any cliff as a reference point. If the abyss is bottomless, then there is no such thing as falling. The cliff and Zhuangzi are both floating free. Leaving the cliff and entering the abyss is weightlessness -- free flight -- not falling. From his relativistic perspective, the cliff is floating away. Zhuangzi's reaction is not "Oh no!" but "Whee!" Brilliant formulation, but i beg to differ. Nietzsche was THE philosopher of affirmation and laughter, and the overman " Dances over the abyss"--TSZ The attitude you describe above is much closer to Sartre's existentialism. "And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh"--Nietzsche |
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