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What is true happiness?

voyaging
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Posted 11/23/08 - 10:08 AM: Subject: What is true happiness?	#1
It is my view that our goal in existence is to make all beings as "happy" as possible (or highest quality of life, wording not important). So, then the question is, how do we define true happiness? Is there one center in the brain that controls levels of happiness? Or is happiness the result of many different sectors of the brain working togethers (perhaps pleasure would be one, pride another)? In that case, what would be the best way to utilize the brain to elicit the certain positive responses? I can see a future where each person's head is connected to a machine that either is controlled by the person or just automatically forces positive emotions on the person, making them constantly happy. If this were to happen, would EVERYONE find the machine to be a positive one? Are there people who would say, "Oh, I don't think this machine is a good idea, what someone else thinks is true happiness isn't what I think it is. I like music (or whatever) more than this."?
A witty saying proves nothing.

Wosret
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Posted 11/23/08 - 01:56 PM:	#2
No thanks, you can keep your machine. I prefer drugs, silly conversations, sex, and anime. Not necessarily in that order, and mixing and matching is preferred.
"If you've got any last words, say 'em now." - Nadie. "I am Horo the Wise." - Horo the Wise.

voyaging
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Posted 11/23/08 - 05:00 PM:	#3
Wosret wrote: No thanks, you can keep your machine. I prefer drugs, silly conversations, sex, and anime. Not necessarily in that order, and mixing and matching is preferred. See, this is my point. Is it possible to create a machine that gives greater positive experiences than anything else to every individual? Or does this make us lose the variety of life? Or is it still superior to having variety simply because of the intense happiness it could theoretically produce? For example, for me, the most intense positive emotion I've felt is probably that of beauty. When I see a certain piece of art, or when I listen to a song, or look towards an ongoing landscape of harmonious nature. This feeling that I get isn't one that I think people have a name for. Is it possible a machine could be created to induce a feeling of seeing beauty on someone? I think this is more along the lines of neuroscience than philosophy.
A witty saying proves nothing.

Wosret
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Posted 11/23/08 - 06:18 PM:	#4
Sure it's possible. But then would you want to? Wouldn't it cheapen the experience? I'd rather the real McCoy.
"If you've got any last words, say 'em now." - Nadie. "I am Horo the Wise." - Horo the Wise.

swstephe
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Posted 11/23/08 - 06:37 PM:	#5
If you look at the current trend -- happiness is the mind finding a path to improve one's position with respect to its values and that path being followed. The result is a chemical reward, (actually a drug), from the brain to reward us to repeat the pattern. It is possible to cheat the system, to get the brain to give out its reward for free, (drugs and alcohol do this). We differentiate a "true" happiness to mean a happiness without such cheating. A machine can't give "true" happiness, (we feel), because the feeling of happiness doesn't accompany the intended improvement. It is the brain's failsafe against cheaters. "You", (as the recipient of the happiness reward), can't tell the difference between true and fake happiness. There are graduations of reality that allow us to partially cheat. If someone is playing a video game, watching a movie or reading a good book -- they might experience a happiness that results from solving tasks, even though no task was actually solved or at least one which had a positive effect on the person, (other than making them happy). Happiness, as an object, is an illusion. It is a carrot that is held out to motivate you to move forward, but in reality it is only an illusion, (made of wood?). Without the motivation, or the value of the object, then motivation ceases. If you wanted to experience the greatest happiness, I've been told that the first hit of heroin is it. The obvious flaw with getting that hit is that the experience can never be repeated and the motivations in life are skewed toward an unachievable goal and unproductive value. It would seem better to ignore the object of happiness, and instead simply adjust values and goals to something that can be reliably repeated, never truly achieved, and something that actually has some benefit to the person.
Ethics is the measuring of morality. Morality is the measuring of good. Good is the measuring of benefit. Benefit is the measure of values.

Wosret
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Posted 11/23/08 - 07:24 PM:	#6
gasp the tasks in video games are totally real! They are really solved, and something is accomplished. It is not a fake task, or cheating the system. It may be contrived, but it is totally not fake!
"If you've got any last words, say 'em now." - Nadie. "I am Horo the Wise." - Horo the Wise.

voyaging
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Posted 11/23/08 - 08:54 PM:	#7
swstephe wrote: If you look at the current trend -- happiness is the mind finding a path to improve one's position with respect to its values and that path being followed. It would seem better to ignore the object of happiness, and instead simply adjust values and goals to something that can be reliably repeated, never truly achieved, and something that actually has some benefit to the person. What are one's values? Are they subjective, or objective for all humans? What do you consider to benefit a person?
A witty saying proves nothing.

Philonus
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Posted 11/23/08 - 10:38 PM:	#8
As Swstephe pointed out, "true" happiness isn't found on sheer chemistry of the brain in which we subjectively find pleasurable but from corresponding that subjective experience with values. However as Voyaging pointed out, swstephe did not distinctly point out what these values are. Are they objective or subjective? Is there a certain values in which all human beings may find "true" happiness? By values we must define what it is in general, I came up with several characteristic of Values: - Teleology (purpose or goals) - Morality/Ethics - Beliefs (does not have to refer to religion) Hence there must be paticular teleology, morality/ethics, and beliefs that may make one truly happy. The problem is not everyone will find certain beliefs, ethics, and goals to bring happiness. Hence if some find certain religion such as Christianity as achieving true happiness whereas others find the ideas of buddhism to bring true happiness, then we cannot necessarily point out that there is any true happiness by general consesnsus. True happiness cannot be defined by general consensus since every individual (and groups) will interpret the values differently. Thus, this undermines how true happiness may be defined as something objective since a paticular value does not necessarily bring true happiness to everyone. However we must make a distinction between Truth and True Happiness. While True Happiness is subjective in the sense that certain individuals will find certain values to bring satisfaction and happiness, Truth demands that the values in themselves are either true or false regardless of whether those values bring happiness or not. Thus true happiness cannot really live under the roof of Truth since both of them do not necessarily correspond. To say that both do correspond is nonsense, I will attempt to make an argument: 1) Truth emphasize what is true and what is false 2) True Happiness is defined as values (belief, ethics, teleology) that correspond with one's subjective pleasure. 3) Values, based upon argument (1), is either true or false 4) For the sake of argument, the value (lets say the idea of santa clause bringing present) is false 5) If Child A, who believes that santa clause exists, is happy that he recieves presents in christmas not only because he recieve presents but that Santa has personally fulfill the Child A's request, experiences a subjective pleasure from the value or belief of Santa Clause. (backing up argument #4) 6) However there is no Santa Clause but the Child A who believes in Santa Clause and recieves present in christmas is happy. 7) Hence the truth or falsity of the value does not correspond with true happines as a subjective pleasure which coincides with paticular values. However if Child A discovers that Santa Clause does not exist then he is not happy, thus it is arguable that happiness and truth correspond, but it really depends upon the context of truth. Some facts bring unhappiness to other people. Certainly, if someone discovers that a shark is heading towards him as he is swimming he is definitely not happy. Hence Truth does not necessarily correspond with True Happiness, thus True Happiness cannot be objective. However if certain truth bring happiness to others, such as Obama won the election, may be define as true happpiness, but this argument is equally flawed since it is obvious that the victory of Obama does not bring true happiness to those who supported McCain. Hence True Happiness is inevitably subjective.

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