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 What is time? | |
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ronjanec
Graduate Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Sep 04, 2008 Location: Chicago area Total Topics: 7 Total Posts: 239 |
 #81
It was very hard for me to accept this also but after I spent a great deal of time working on this I realized it was true. Man never really understood time and because of this he gave time a much greater significance than time deserved. Everyone today talks about sundials and hourglasses and completely ignores the most important timekeeping system before the invention of the clock! This is one very important example of how much modern man "knows and understands about time". This was also one of my greatest discoveries and was also the major reason I was able to figure this out. You never commented on the most important part of my post or the way our ancestors told time by watching the sun's daily "journey"? |
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ronjanec
Graduate Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Sep 04, 2008 Location: Chicago area Total Topics: 7 Total Posts: 239 |
#82
Kid you really love to attack people and insult people and I noticed you never have anything intelligent or original to add to the discussion. And I never said time does not exist: Man calls the results of his measuring system time existing moving increasing and passing. |
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ronjanec
Graduate Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Sep 04, 2008 Location: Chicago area Total Topics: 7 Total Posts: 239 |
#83
A measuring and counting system for what? For everyone else: Man measures the rotational and orbital movement of the earth in its' annual journey around the sun using a clock watch or calendar and man also counts the number of times the earth has made the same journey since a very significant event in the past (2008 times). |
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Nick_m
Student of Good  Usergroup: Members Joined: Aug 28, 2008 Total Topics: 3 Total Posts: 39 |
#84
Advice to ronjanec - I think I know where you're coming from with your argument, but please try to be more friendly to Kwalish Kid - he wants merely to understand your point of view, not to attack you personally. You should relish his questions and look at them with a view to focussing your answers so everyone knows where you stand. Clarity of argument is key to enlightening philosophical discussion, and this is a very interesting topic. To Kwalish Kid, you sound very sharp and no doubt have a philosophical depth beyond my pondering, but please avoid saying words such as 'stupid' to describe arguments. You have shown the premise to be false, but that does not justify you calling it 'stupid'. Too harsh, I think. Keep up the focussed criticism by all means - help ronjanec understand the consequences of his own position better, and keep making distinctions. As for me, I believe we observe time in the passing of thought. This I call experienced time. The other type of time, which measures the rate at which the earth turns or atoms break up, I call independent time, because it can be agreed upon between people that when the sun is at its zenith, it is midday, the position of the face of the earth to the sun making this possible. |
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ronjanec
Graduate Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Sep 04, 2008 Location: Chicago area Total Topics: 7 Total Posts: 239 |
#85
Nick I have tried to be friendly before and he continues to attack me despite this (check my older posts in this thread) And yes you are right: Time also exists and passes in the mind when man observes the results of his measuring system and the passing of the seasons and the years: 9:48am When anyone looks at this he causes a extended mental version of this to also exist inside his mind or a mental time dimension existing: This mental time dimension does not then exist outside the mind in any way. Man took this one step further and started to believe this mental time dimension was a invisible thing existing all around him everywhere in the physical universe and this was actually the original basis for the illusionary time dimension today (or "spacetime" today) Bye all, I will back for more abuse tonight. |
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Kwalish Kid
Tenured Poster Usergroup: Members Joined: Sep 26, 2004 Total Topics: 38 Total Posts: 4289 |
#86
ronjanec wrote: Nick I have tried to be friendly before and he continues to attack me despite this (check my older posts in this thread) And yes you are right: Time also exists and passes in the mind when man observes the results of his measuring system and the passing of the seasons and the years: 9:48am When anyone looks at this he causes a extended mental version of this to also exist inside his mind or a mental time dimension existing: This mental time dimension does not then exist outside the mind in any way. Man took this one step further and started to believe this mental time dimension was a invisible thing existing all around him everywhere in the physical universe and this was actually the original basis for the illusionary time dimension today (or "spacetime" today) Bye all, I will back for more abuse tonight. Please. So, fine, you don't believe in physics. What are you going to replace it with? Do you have an alternate explanation for the position of the planets in the night sky? Actually, I'm not sure you can understand or respond to that queastion at all, since this question really asks for an explanation of the position of planets in the sky at certain times. Since time doesn't exist, I guess there are no regularities in the position of the planets, at least no regularities that coincide with anything else. So, why do people mistakenly refer to all the things that happen at the same time, or with the same duration, or that are otherwise established to be coordinated in time? Why do their measurements all tend to agree to high precision? Probably done with philosophy. Will check PMs from time to time. |
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ragus
Tenured Poster  Usergroup: Members Joined: Apr 23, 2006 Total Topics: 16 Total Posts: 2541 |
#87
ronjanec wrote This mental time dimension does not then exist outside the mind in any way. Man took this one step further and started to believe this mental time dimension was a invisible thing existing all around him everywhere in the physical universe and this was actually the original basis for the illusionary time dimension today (or "spacetime" today) Are you saying that time is a creation (feature/function) of the mind and doesn't have an existence outside of it? Kwalish Kid wrote Since time doesn't exist Strawman. ronjanec said "Time also exists and passes in the mind when man observes the results of his measuring system" and he classified this as mental time in contrast to the time of physics (aka spacetime) which he claims (as I understand him) to be an illusion if taken to exist independently of the mind Our awareness of truth and falsehood gives us the capacity, but not the reason, to lie. |
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jorndoe
Investigator  Usergroup: Members Joined: Sep 06, 2008 Location: Canada,Denmark Total Topics: 29 Total Posts: 1018 |
#88
ronjanec wrote: Time actually began in prehistoric times I see 3 separate instances involving time, in that one sentence alone: "Time", "began", and "times". Does that mean there is a real/actual time ("began", "times"), that is a prerequisite for our artificial/invented time ("Time")? Or, alternatively, are you defining "time" in terms of itself? Perhaps a more fruitful attempt would be, either to recognize that there aren't more fundamental phenomena by which to define time, or to attempt discovering such more fundamental phenomena. Of course these approaches are more philosophical in nature than empirical. The physics communities seems to adopt a definition based on experience: "time is that which we want to measure with clocks". Some convergence of these various definitions may be all we can hope to agree on..? ronjanec, what is your take on these comments then? Edited by jorndoe on Sep 14, 2008 - 11:23 AM People are to themselves what they think; people are to others what they do. ∞ ∑ 1/i² = π²/6 i=1 |
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ronjanec
Graduate Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Sep 04, 2008 Location: Chicago area Total Topics: 7 Total Posts: 239 |
#89
No ragus, I am saying time exists on the face of a clock on a calendar and in our minds and basically nowhere else on earth or anywhere else in the physical universe.(Time existing and passing on pluto is basically all in our heads) jorndoe I am saying time did exist in any form anywhere in the physical universe before man started doing this. Man is under the illusion that time has "always" existed because during our lives time has always existed but this was not always true. I can prove this but it is very complicated. |
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Kwalish Kid
Tenured Poster Usergroup: Members Joined: Sep 26, 2004 Total Topics: 38 Total Posts: 4289 |
#90
ronjanec wrote: jorndoe I am saying time did exist in any form anywhere in the physical universe before man started doing this. Man is under the illusion that time has "always" existed because during our lives time has always existed but this was not always true. I can prove this but it is very complicated. We have the time. Give it a try. So far, you have given us nothing but claims of your own authority in this matter. Put up or shut up. Probably done with philosophy. Will check PMs from time to time. |
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