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What is philosophy and what can it accomplish?

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What is philosophy and what can it accomplish?

Desidude666
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Posted 11/01/09 - 11:11 PM:	#21
mark73 wrote: Id like to discuss this question with reference to the history of Philosophy and to different schools of philosophy, both historically and contemporary. Philosophers (discounting "natural philosophy" which today means science) have had different notions of what philosophy is and what it is capable of accomplishing. Notions so different that to identify them all as Philosophy would seem to lead to a very broad unhelpful notion. What are some of these varying ideas of what philosophy is and of what it is capable of accomplishing? Which view do you share and why? This question is very general. As a starting point Id like to ask, CAN PHILOSOPHY EXPLAIN REALITY OR "ONLY" ANALYZE THE CONCEPTS WE USE TO EXPLAIN REALITY?. What is the relationship between the two? Do the two even merge inseperatly together at times? Personally I dont think philosophy can give us knowledge of the world. For me its a method of analysing the CONCEPTS we use to understand reality. How can the absence of empirical investigation allow us to understand the world? Unless a question is analytically true or false what can philosophy possibly answer? However as in the case of freedom and determinism, the analysis of various concepts of freedom seem to show that some types of freedom are possible and some are not, or at least are seemingly incoherent. So maybe in some sense philosophy can give us non trivial knowledge of reality. Anyways I hope I expressed my self clearly. Hope to see people's own views and arguments. Thanks. It helps analyze, not ascertain facts. Philosophy is not about research, it is not about science; it is about understanding. You cannot judge things without understanding. When you have knowledge of something, you cannot use it without proper understanding, that's where philosophy, I think, is very very important. To be a good judge of things, you need philosophy. I doubt any thinking man can sufficiently judge with reasonable maturity without any exposure to philosophy. That's where it applies.
What you are, you are by accident of birth; what I am, I am by myself. There are and will be a thousand princes; there is only one Beethoven. - Ludwig van Beethoven

Tobias
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Posted 11/02/09 - 02:01 AM:	#22
Isn't the territory different from maps used to navigate the territory? Well is it possible to distinguish map from territory? Any distinction creates a new map. The distinction between map and territory is itself part of the map, not the territory. Philosophy qua discipline may be seen as a map, and compared to a brought number of other maps. However there is no way to distiguish what experience is territorial and what conceptual, therefore the concepts used are the only way to say anything about the territory. Philsophy itself shapes our territory, since we can't experience how the territory really really is, so we have no measure, except for the usefulness of the map itself. See the concepts used in this thread, history, science, progress, map, territory, all concepts which form part of our life world i.e. territory.
"The Power of Kant compels you" "The Power of Kant compels you" "The Power of Kant compels you"

brainpharte
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Posted 11/02/09 - 07:25 AM:	#23
In order for there to be nothing more about something than is captured by our conceptualizations of that something, those conceptualizations must be exhaustive--which strikes me as empirically unattainable, and for that matter, logically incoherent.
"I don't see much sense in that," said Rabbit. "No," said Pooh humbly, "there isn't. But there was going to be when I began it. It's just that something happened to it along the way."

sensabile
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1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 11/02/09 - 09:53 AM:	#24
Tobias wrote: Well is it possible to distinguish map from territory? Any distinction creates a new map. The distinction between map and territory is itself part of the map, not the territory. Philosophy qua discipline may be seen as a map, and compared to a brought number of other maps. However there is no way to distiguish what experience is territorial and what conceptual, therefore the concepts used are the only way to say anything about the territory. Philsophy itself shapes our territory, since we can't experience how the territory really really is, so we have no measure, except for the usefulness of the map itself. See the concepts used in this thread, history, science, progress, map, territory, all concepts which form part of our life world i.e. territory. Hi Tobias. I find this bit difficult: The distinction between map and territory is itself part of the map, not the territory. Could you elaborate? You first say that a distinction creates a new map but here you seem to suggest that the distinction between map and territory is part of the same map (i.e. part of the map, as opposed to a different map). I also have some more general doubt regarding your "distinction". If I hold in one hand a diagram of a light-bulb and in the other a light-bulb and say "they are not the same" then I have made a distinction: the net effect is a logical step of "A is not B". Perhaps I have misunderstood but you seem to be suggesting that more is taking place when we make distinctions--or are you referring only to a special case? One last point: are coherence and eloquence not other possible measures, besides use, of a map?
For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

sensabile
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Posted 11/05/09 - 04:10 PM:	#25
Is my post so terrible that nobody will reply?
For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

Desidude666
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Posted 11/05/09 - 11:12 PM:	#26
sensabile wrote: Is my post so terrible that nobody will reply? Again, if you follow Kantian philosophy, a terrain is noumenal reality. A map is phenomenal, that's the difference.
What you are, you are by accident of birth; what I am, I am by myself. There are and will be a thousand princes; there is only one Beethoven. - Ludwig van Beethoven

Weisen
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Posted 11/06/09 - 12:45 PM:	#27
mark73 wrote: Id like to discuss this question with reference to the history of Philosophy and to different schools of philosophy, both historically and contemporary. Philosophers (discounting "natural philosophy" which today means science) have had different notions of what philosophy is and what it is capable of accomplishing. Notions so different that to identify them all as Philosophy would seem to lead to a very broad unhelpful notion. What are some of these varying ideas of what philosophy is and of what it is capable of accomplishing? Which view do you share and why? This question is very general. As a starting point Id like to ask, CAN PHILOSOPHY EXPLAIN REALITY OR "ONLY" ANALYZE THE CONCEPTS WE USE TO EXPLAIN REALITY?. What is the relationship between the two? Do the two even merge inseperatly together at times? Personally I dont think philosophy can give us knowledge of the world. For me its a method of analysing the CONCEPTS we use to understand reality. How can the absence of empirical investigation allow us to understand the world? Unless a question is analytically true or false what can philosophy possibly answer? However as in the case of freedom and determinism, the analysis of various concepts of freedom seem to show that some types of freedom are possible and some are not, or at least are seemingly incoherent. So maybe in some sense philosophy can give us non trivial knowledge of reality. Anyways I hope I expressed my self clearly. Hope to see people's own views and arguments. Thanks. Here's bold statement: philosophy has done absolutely nothing for human knowledge except to stop progress.

GrasBourJei
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Posted 11/15/09 - 11:57 PM:	#28
Tobias “Well is it possible to distinguish map from territory? Yes. “Any distinction creates a new map.” The map is the map. The territory is the territory. “The distinction between map and territory is itself part of the map, not the territory.” The map is according to the territory and so is later, so yes, “Philosophy qua discipline may be seen as a map, and compared to a brought number of other maps.” Yes. “However there is no way to distiguish what experience is territorial and what conceptual, therefore the concepts used are the only way to say anything about the territory.” Concepts are not the only way to communicate about experience, but all communications are conceptual. Experience itself is not territorial or conceptual, but of a time and place and may seem to transcend time and space in concept and in phenomenal experience; and so is phenomenal and part of phenomena and what is phenomenal. Phenomena, phenomenal, space, time, time and space, experience; concept, conceptual, communication, language, expression. Territory is the wrong word. “Philsophy itself shapes our territory, since we can't experience how the territory really really is, so we have no measure, except for the usefulness of the map itself.” I suppose philosophy, like all languages, and any logical form is a sort of filter…. “See the concepts used in this thread, history, science, progress, map, territory, all concepts which form part of our life world i.e. territory.” I would call it phenomenal personal experience.
“To dwell is to garden.” Martin Heidegger

GrasBourJei
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Posted 11/16/09 - 12:10 AM:	#29
Brainpharte.... “In order for there to be nothing more about something than is captured by our conceptualizations of that something, those conceptualizations must be exhaustive--which strikes me as empirically unattainable, and for that matter, logically incoherent.” Yes….
“To dwell is to garden.” Martin Heidegger

180 Proof
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Posted 11/16/09 - 12:23 AM:	#30
Desidue666 wrote: Again, if you follow Kantian philosophy, a terrain is noumenal reality. A map is phenomenal, that's the difference. No doubt. If, however, one chooses a non-Kantian (e.g. Spinozist or Wittgensteinian) route, a terrain is logico-mathematical & a map is grammar-conceptual.
The question isn't "Which explanations do I believe?" but rather "Which explanations do I least disbelieve?" Absence of evidence THAT MUST BE THERE (i.e. implied by any claim, concept, or (its) predicates, that affects changes in/to the world) entails evidence of absence. [What cannot be done?[What cannot be hoped?[What cannot be known?]]]

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