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What is happiness? We live for it, right?
An analysis of what this concept means.

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What is happiness? We live for it, right?

Techeth
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Posted 03/25/08 - 04:38 PM:	#51
No its not a definition its a condition, either, detatch or accept, or put to one side, compartmentalise. I guess it comes down to whether you beleive anyone alive today is happy. I beleive there are such people, and those people are not contemplating the horrors of the world while doing so. I start with the fact people are happy, so finding the explination is a matter of deduction. You believe they are not so in that case, yes there is no proof detaching yourself from anything is happiness.
Studying is like rowing against the current, if you are not moving forward, you are moving backward. - Chinese proverb Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me! - Anon Silence makes the soul feel sick - Timid Timothy

jeffcu990
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Posted 03/25/08 - 05:23 PM:	#52
I beleive there are such people, and those people are not contemplating the horrors of the world while doing so. Are they simply ignoring the horrors? Or are they feeling fortunate not to be involved? I just joined these forums, and it looks like you did too--doesn't anyone else have anything to say about happiness? Specific answers to each of these questions would be very helpful: is happiness a state or a temporary condition? Do you earn happiness or is it out of your control? Do you need pain to achieve happiness? Can you have happiness and be in pain at the same time? Please be concise.

Lex
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Posted 03/25/08 - 07:01 PM:	#53
Techeth wrote: No its not a definition its a condition, either, detatch or accept, or put to one side, compartmentalise. I guess it comes down to whether you beleive anyone alive today is happy. I beleive there are such people, and those people are not contemplating the horrors of the world while doing so. I start with the fact people are happy, so finding the explination is a matter of deduction. You believe they are not so in that case, yes there is no proof detaching yourself from anything is happiness. "it comes down to whether you believe" = assumption, no evidence except mass propaganda and commonplace education, people are simply brought up with the vague idea of "happiness" inside them. Not contemplating = ignoring. People are happy != (not equal) a fact, it is an assumption unless you know you are happy and can define it (which you did not do so far) Not "there is no proof". I am actually saying that a deductive process will lead to the conclusion that happiness (of a sentient, intelligent being) is impossible to attain through detachment.

Techeth
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Posted 03/26/08 - 04:13 AM:	#54
Lex wrote: "it comes down to whether you believe" = assumption, no evidence except mass propaganda and commonplace education, people are simply brought up with the vague idea of "happiness" inside them. Not contemplating = ignoring. People are happy != (not equal) a fact, it is an assumption unless you know you are happy and can define it (which you did not do so far) Not "there is no proof". I am actually saying that a deductive process will lead to the conclusion that happiness (of a sentient, intelligent being) is impossible to attain through detachment. How can you say, "I can't define it I don't know what it is so it doesn't exist!" That's it? Thanks Lex, if there is anything else you would like to help the world with I'm sure we can organise a press conference. What would this proof consist of what do you need to see. Science has proven a chemical change in the body, your eyes can see a physical change in a person, your ears can hear the laughter of a small child, and it is described as a feeling, what more do you want. I have looked out of my belly button window and have seen and experienced happiness, that is my proof. I can not email it to you, or send it next day delivery (well it's unlikely that I can:eyebrow. From my experience a person can choose not to be happy very easily, very easily indeed. If you are looking for an algebraic equation it would take a better man than me to give it to you. If I put a person in front of you and said they were happy, for it to be true doesn't mean I have to prove it. What about sadness, does that exist? Are we all in neutral? Do positives and negatives not exists with emotions and feelings? The happiness I think you are defining as I said, is the aim of the world but we are not there yet, but sadly your definition of happiness is not absolute, there is a happiness that does exist, and you are more than welcome to consider it derisery. jeffcu990 wrote: Are they simply ignoring the horrors? Or are they feeling fortunate not to be involved? I just joined these forums, and it looks like you did too--doesn't anyone else have anything to say about happiness? Specific answers to each of these questions would be very helpful: is happiness a state or a temporary condition? Do you earn happiness or is it out of your control? Do you need pain to achieve happiness? Can you have happiness and be in pain at the same time? Please be concise. I guess that depends on what you mean by a state? A permanent state? As in unchangeable? I can't see how it can be if you are to feel depression or sadness, unless you argued it was a happy person feeling those emotions. So you are always a happy person, a happy being, you are just not always happy. I would argue it can be both, someone who is not happy or wants to remain happy, can decide to be happy, and make efforts so reach that goal, so to a degree it is earned, although I am not sure this is the best word, as it implies it is deserved or exchanged. Unless you believe you implicitly get what you deserve. But at the same time someone or something can make you happy, without you doing anything. I don't know if you need pain as I don't what would happen in an alternate reality, but I would argue yes. You need the negative of the positive. I hope I was concise, just my view if there are others with greater insight I look forward to them.
Studying is like rowing against the current, if you are not moving forward, you are moving backward. - Chinese proverb Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me! - Anon Silence makes the soul feel sick - Timid Timothy

Lex
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Posted 03/26/08 - 08:30 AM:	#55
Techeth wrote: How can you say, "I can't define it I don't know what it is so it doesn't exist!" That's it? Thanks Lex, if there is anything else you would like to help the world with I'm sure we can organise a press conference. What would this proof consist of what do you need to see. Science has proven a chemical change in the body, your eyes can see a physical change in a person, your ears can hear the laughter of a small child, and it is described as a feeling, what more do you want. I have looked out of my belly button window and have seen and experienced happiness, that is my proof. I can not email it to you, or send it next day delivery (well it's unlikely that I can:eyebrow. From my experience a person can choose not to be happy very easily, very easily indeed. If you are looking for an algebraic equation it would take a better man than me to give it to you. If I put a person in front of you and said they were happy, for it to be true doesn't mean I have to prove it. What about sadness, does that exist? Are we all in neutral? Do positives and negatives not exists with emotions and feelings? The happiness I think you are defining as I said, is the aim of the world but we are not there yet, but sadly your definition of happiness is not absolute, there is a happiness that does exist, and you are more than welcome to consider it derisery. "belly button window": ?? completely confused The only thing I can come up with for this is that you mean before you were born, but I have no idea how that proves anything since there is no way you could have memory of that. So you are saying you experienced happiness? I am sure you did not walk outside at one point and suddenly had this random giddy feeling. Obviously you analyzed a certain portion of your life and came to the conclusion that the experiences you have had/are having are making you happy. So yes, you definitely should be able to describe how this came to be: since happiness in the human sense is linked to intelligence, you can at least convey the situation that creates your state of happiness (obviously I am not asking you to upload your feelings). For example, you can say: I was watering my flowers, and realized that THAT makes me happy. At which point I would respond "well that sounds awfully boring and purposeless, so I do not see how your definition of happiness is anything more than a personal emotional fetish". Or such. You keep saying that it exists (insist quite strongly in fact) and that it is in the world around us, there to grab. That is not a satisfactory explanation. If you will, I AM looking for a formula: something tangible, defined concrete. I realize that I will hardly be able to conjure one up by myself, since I have no idea what the feeling associated with happiness is, which is why I wanted to borrow the processing mind-power and experience of fellow truth-seekers. Answers such as: "it obviously exists" are not satisfactory in the least without corresponding logical deductions or evidence.

Makarismos
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Posted 03/26/08 - 01:46 PM:	#56
Lex wrote: ...For example, you can say: I was watering my flowers, and realized that THAT makes me happy. At which point I would respond "well that sounds awfully boring and purposeless, so I do not see how your definition of happiness is anything more than a personal emotional fetish". Or such... So you already know what your going to say if he gives you what you want to hear, if he does you will say it, and if he doesnt then you will say he is saying the wrong thing. Why ask at all?

Techeth
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Posted 03/26/08 - 05:08 PM:	#57
Lex wrote: "belly button window": ?? completely confused The only thing I can come up with for this is that you mean before you were born, but I have no idea how that proves anything since there is no way you could have memory of that. It was a joke as in my small view of the world, one must diffuse ones frustrations somehow, no? (that's not a question) Lex wrote: So you are saying you experienced happiness? I am sure you did not walk outside at one point and suddenly had this random giddy feeling. Obviously you analyzed a certain portion of your life and came to the conclusion that the experiences you have had/are having are making you happy. So yes, you definitely should be able to describe how this came to be: since happiness in the human sense is linked to intelligence, you can at least convey the situation that creates your state of happiness (obviously I am not asking you to upload your feelings). For example, you can say: I was watering my flowers, and realized that THAT makes me happy. At which point I would respond "well that sounds awfully boring and purposeless It did not slap me in the face as I walked outside ( again another joke ) but I have woken up happy, usually unsure why I feel so good, just that I do. I could probably explain now why I was happy, but I am not going to I feel I have made my point enough times. I believe in my first post I gave an example, MY FIRST! POST! as in MY FISRT POST! Not the best example granted but, it was what came to mind. Lex wrote: so I do not see how your definition of happiness is anything more than a personal emotional fetish". Or such. I can live with that, sounds close enough. Try re-reading this thread, from the begining and examine what everyone has written, if you truly are looking for the answer. I will say this one last time, probably because I am a fool, but... If you want to experience happiness Lex, you must choose to do so, just give it ago, I mean believe it possible then try to prove your theory, you may learn far more than anyone here can teach you. If you cannot bring yourself to, then best of luck to you, and thank you for your contribution to the balance of the universe.
Studying is like rowing against the current, if you are not moving forward, you are moving backward. - Chinese proverb Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me! - Anon Silence makes the soul feel sick - Timid Timothy

aleesamarie
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Posted 03/26/08 - 10:33 PM:	#58
Have you ever thought that there may not be a goal in life for everyone? We are created and we die. Those are the two things that every person has, will, or could ever truely go threw, those are the two constants in every life. As human beings, we have become insightful, we look into ourselves and into the world around us. We do not just casually accept the fact that we live and we die. We feel as if there needs to be more to it. Happiness is an allusion. The reason I say this is because happiness never seems to be reached. I have never ever met a person that is truely happy with everything in their life. There are times when we become content with the situation we are persently in, in that case we describe it as happiness, yet, in a matter of seconds it can be destroyed with the realization that this "happiness" isn't in every aspect of life. In my opinion, which is purely that, I believe we are born to die. I believe we were given a gift to question the world around us. We were given the ability to ask questions, to progress, to strive, and to sink. We are different from other species, just like other species are different from eachother. We are no better than any other, (yes we have progressed in technology, I can type on a computer while my dog just runs around and chases her tail) yet in reality, the damage we are causeing to the world around us does not make us better. We were given a life that will enevitalbly be taken away. Some choose to find something to fill it with, wealth, love, happiness, sex, a job, a family, clothes, maybe even something much simpler like making it threw the night. Yet, when all is said and done, we will be left with nothing. Money can be spent, love can be lost, happiness can turn to tears, eventually your orgasm will be over with, you can loose a job, you could loose your family, clothes are just materials, and another day will come. We live to die. And if you are truely lucky, you will have the chance to fill it with any allusion possible. But eventually it will end, and nothing truely matters. I swear I'm not normally this depressing

aleesamarie
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Posted 03/26/08 - 10:33 PM:	#59
Have you ever thought that there may not be a goal in life for everyone? We are created and we die. Those are the two things that every person has, will, or could ever truely go threw, those are the two constants in every life. As human beings, we have become insightful, we look into ourselves and into the world around us. We do not just casually accept the fact that we live and we die. We feel as if there needs to be more to it. Happiness is an allusion. The reason I say this is because happiness never seems to be reached. I have never ever met a person that is truely happy with everything in their life. There are times when we become content with the situation we are persently in, in that case we describe it as happiness, yet, in a matter of seconds it can be destroyed with the realization that this "happiness" isn't in every aspect of life. In my opinion, which is purely that, I believe we are born to die. I believe we were given a gift to question the world around us. We were given the ability to ask questions, to progress, to strive, and to sink. We are different from other species, just like other species are different from eachother. We are no better than any other, (yes we have progressed in technology, I can type on a computer while my dog just runs around and chases her tail) yet in reality, the damage we are causeing to the world around us does not make us better. We were given a life that will enevitalbly be taken away. Some choose to find something to fill it with, wealth, love, happiness, sex, a job, a family, clothes, maybe even something much simpler like making it threw the night. Yet, when all is said and done, we will be left with nothing. Money can be spent, love can be lost, happiness can turn to tears, eventually your orgasm will be over with, you can loose a job, you could loose your family, clothes are just materials, and another day will come. We live to die. And if you are truely lucky, you will have the chance to fill it with any allusion possible. But eventually it will end, and nothing truely matters. I swear I'm not normally this depressing

Techeth
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0 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 03/27/08 - 09:01 AM:	#60
The point I am making is it doesn't have be eternal to be real, only if you define it as so. Being happy then realising it won't last forever doesn't mean you were not happy. It's like me saying you are never that depressing because you are not always depressed, you will soon not be depressed so depression was just an illusion.
Studying is like rowing against the current, if you are not moving forward, you are moving backward. - Chinese proverb Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me! - Anon Silence makes the soul feel sick - Timid Timothy

Lex
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Posted 03/27/08 - 01:36 PM:	#61
Makarismos wrote: So you already know what your going to say if he gives you what you want to hear, if he does you will say it, and if he doesnt then you will say he is saying the wrong thing. Why ask at all? Do I really need to interpret this? It is perfectly clear that I gave an example. Since he is happy, he knows what experiences are making him happy, and I am asking him to describe them. Because a majority of people who are not used to thinking much about it might indeed say something like "eating ice cream makes me happy" I inserted the little safeguard against these statements. I never assumed that he would actually say something as trivial as that.

Lex
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Posted 03/27/08 - 01:45 PM:	#62
Techeth wrote: It did not slap me in the face as I walked outside ( again another joke ) but I have woken up happy, usually unsure why I feel so good, just that I do. I could probably explain now why I was happy, but I am not going to I feel I have made my point enough times. I believe in my first post I gave an example, MY FIRST! POST! as in MY FISRT POST! Not the best example granted but, it was what came to mind. Treadmill? You should know by now that I will not accept something that vague, it offers no proof. I can certainly tell you that if I fell off a treadmill every day and somebody laughed about it, it would not be enough for me to experience happiness. Once again, it is simply not a reasonable argument. Techeth wrote: I can live with that, sounds close enough. Try re-reading this thread, from the begining and examine what everyone has written, if you truly are looking for the answer. Started it, read it, summarized the received information completely. Techeth wrote: I will say this one last time, probably because I am a fool, but... If you want to experience happiness Lex, you must choose to do so, just give it ago, I mean believe it possible then try to prove your theory, you may learn far more than anyone here can teach you. If you cannot bring yourself to, then best of luck to you, and thank you for your contribution to the balance of the universe. There is no evidence of that whatsoever. What exactly leads you to saying that? Unless you can describe to me HOW you can be happy (concrete examples of daily activities/experiences that make you HAPPY) you cannot claim to even begin to understand the properties of happiness, such as what you have to do to attain it. Saying "you must choose it" is a random statement, not a logical argument. Maybe you were trying to make a random statement, but that still proves nothing.

Lex
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Posted 03/27/08 - 01:55 PM:	#63
aleesamarie wrote: We live to die. And if you are truely lucky, you will have the chance to fill it with any allusion possible. But eventually it will end, and nothing truely matters. I swear I'm not normally this depressing Erm... go to the "Am I in Hell" quote?... You see this is also a random assumption. While you might take the nihilist approach (no purpose) and defend it from a logical standpoint, you cannot say "someone gave us a gift to question the world around us and made us mortal", because that is definitely intended torture: implies a sadistic god or that we are indeed in hell. So did you mean that you are a nihilist? In that case, I would have to agree in part: but I am actually an optimistic nihilist: this means that even though, with my scarce information about the world, I can only logically assume that we are indeed alone and have been randomly created without reason (once again, I would be happy to know that there is an afterlife where I go to a nice fun world without suffering, but as far as I know that is fantasy so I do not live with that option in mind), but that it is possible to somehow create happiness out of our situation anyway. Why do I assume this when I am so pro-logic/against assumption? Because there are 2 possible alternatives for a nihilist: a) happiness is possible for humans b) happiness is impossible for humans. If a), might as well die, but if b), then there is a reason to live. Nothing more than that. So I am looking for the formula for happiness. Think outside the box. Stop repeating these platitudes: I know people are happy, happiness is everywhere around us, you must accept happiness. This is not a movie nor an anime, and there is no guaranteed happy ending: not unless you make one. So the challenge is to create a definition greater than the commonplace annoying and abstract idea of love as we know it in our society (=sex and nothing more), but something better to work towards.

Techeth
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Posted 03/27/08 - 03:01 PM:	#64
Lex wrote: Treadmill? You should know by now that I will not accept something that vague, it offers no proof. I can certainly tell you that if I fell off a treadmill every day and somebody laughed about it, it would not be enough for me to experience happiness. You’re a funny guy, you do enjoy a good exaggeration, I think there is hope for you yet my lad! Like I said I can't give you an equation for it. But I am curious what is it about happiness that is so confusing, why not sadness, depression or boredom, joy (or is that the same thing) anger or confusion etc? Or do you have the maths for those this is just the last on the list?
Studying is like rowing against the current, if you are not moving forward, you are moving backward. - Chinese proverb Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me! - Anon Silence makes the soul feel sick - Timid Timothy

jeffcu990
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Posted 03/27/08 - 05:45 PM:	#65
You’re a funny guy, you do enjoy a good exaggeration, I think there is hope for you yet my lad! I just can't understand why people feel so authoritative. Who taught you what you know? You're not looking in from outside the world--you're in it, not in a movie. So from where did you attain this superior knowledge? Like I said I can't give you an equation for it. But I am curious what is it about happiness that is so confusing, why not sadness, depression or boredom, joy (or is that the same thing) anger or confusion etc? Or do you have the maths for those this is just the last on the list? It seems that no one around me is interested in the slightest about what they're doing with their existence. None of the "great" philosophers I have studied so far were able to rid themselves of arrogance, but if happiness is so obvious, then perhaps ordinary people on forums like this can explain it. I am concerned with happiness because I am aware of my existence and refuse to be satisfied with sex, television and retirement. Now, before you tell me again that you clearly know all about happiness, I will tell you this: I have a condition that definitely prevents me from ever being content. And contentment is certainly a requirement for happiness, right? The condition has caused me overwhelming pain, only made worse by our pathetic society. Unless the condition miraculously disappears, I can never be happy. This brings up countless other issues, mostly revolving around intelligence. A person completely brainwashed by society may perceive that he is happy, and even the most intelligent people cannot experience another's life or amass all possibilities. But it probably doesn't matter, as my search has exposed happiness as yet another illusion created by our brainless society. Ask someone whether they're happy. "What? How could you ask that? OF COURSE I'm happy!" That is the response you'll get from adults. Are they happy because they have plenty of beer to drink and television shows to watch, not to mention an incredibly weak relationship with their "husband" and "family"? Maybe true happiness does exist. Now tell me what it is! Or tell me you don't know, either.

Lex
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Posted 03/27/08 - 08:36 PM:	#66
Techeth wrote: You’re a funny guy, you do enjoy a good exaggeration, I think there is hope for you yet my lad! Like I said I can't give you an equation for it. But I am curious what is it about happiness that is so confusing, why not sadness, depression or boredom, joy (or is that the same thing) anger or confusion etc? Or do you have the maths for those this is just the last on the list? Besides joy, which is not well-defined, I can relate to all others so yes I do have the maths for them. Though it was a forced exaggeration: you did give only that example. But seriously, you do act as if you were the all-knowing spectator: take a closer look, you will find that all that is defined will only exist as long as you choose to define it that way. For example, if my "happiness" ends the moment I attempt to analyze it, clearly it is not the happiness I am looking for.

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Posted 03/28/08 - 11:18 AM:	#67
jeffcu990 wrote: I just can't understand why people feel so authoritative. Who taught you what you know? You're not looking in from outside the world--you're in it, not in a movie. So from where did you attain this superior knowledge? It was funny, it was an exaggeration, and I do think there is hope. I'm not really sure how that makes me superior but okay. Look at it this way, I have no reason to think it doesn't exist, you or Lex have not presented me with anything I agree with to suggest the majority of the world is delusional. Now you may feel the same way about me. That's fine. jeffcu990 wrote: It seems that no one around me is interested in the slightest about what they're doing with their existence. None of the "great" philosophers I have studied so far were able to rid themselves of arrogance, but if happiness is so obvious, then perhaps ordinary people on forums like this can explain it. I am concerned with happiness because I am aware of my existence and refuse to be satisfied with sex, television and retirement. Yes the world could be doing a lot more, and in my opinion is massively misguided. But as I said the fact you refuse to be satisfied is a clue. I do not want to come across all knowing, but since you guys seem to take offense anyway. Authority: "Happiness = contentedness + equal to or more than 1 strong positive emotion, generating a positive view of ones self or life" A child: "Happiness! What's happiness? How long does it last?" Authority: "Undetermined!" A child: "Will what makes you happy make me happy?" Authority: "Undetermined!" A child: "Well I'm just confused! " Authority: "Well here's an example of happiness. Being tickled for 20 seconds, will NOT make you happy! ENJOYING being tickled for 20 seconds WILL make you happy! But probably not for the rest of your life!" A child: "That sounds fun! Is there another kind?" Authority: "I think so!" A child: "What is it like?" Authority: "Well I'm not sure but I guess it would be where the world is a happy place, where we have no real everyday reason to feel down or upset, but have a positive view of the world and things to come!" A child: "Wow! Where can I find that?" Authority: "Well like I told Lex I don't think that's anywhere but we've got our fingers crossed!" A child: "So when people say they are happy what's that?" Authority: "Well to be honest they may not all really be telling the truth, but who want to go around all day saying I feel like suicide for lunch! It's easier to try for some people. You see some people are happy! Because they have something that makes them content, plus gives them a little something extra that they like, that makes them feel good. For those people they don't fuss and bother too much about things they don't think they can control, so even when bad things happen, as long as it's not too bad they don't let it destroy that happiness!" A child: "Why?" Authority: "Well happiness is a nice thing and people like it, it makes the person that is happy feel good. It's a bit selfish that way, but its okay it's still nice to see other people happy!" A child: "Why would anyone not want to be happy?" Authority: "Well there are some people who just don't want to be, some people don't think they deserve it, some in a strange way are happier not being happy, yep that's right happier not being happy, or at least they want to be. But we'll not worry about that now, we can talk about that when you’re older." A child: "Wow you like some kind of all knowing spectator authority person! Is this all true or are you some kind to trickster, mister?" Authority: "No, no I am just a simple man, true or false is for you to decide, this is simply my take on things and I have no reason to think otherwise. I can only trust my eyes, if I cannot what use are they to me? obviously there is a deeper discussion here but that is for adults!" The part of Authority was played today by Techeth, the part of the child by Daniel Radcliffe jeffcu990 wrote: Now, before you tell me again that you clearly know all about happiness, I will tell you this: I have a condition that definitely prevents me from ever being content. And contentment is certainly a requirement for happiness, right? The condition has caused me overwhelming pain, only made worse by our pathetic society. Unless the condition miraculously disappears, I can never be happy. This brings up countless other issues, mostly revolving around intelligence. A person completely brainwashed by society may perceive that he is happy, and even the most intelligent people cannot experience another's life or amass all possibilities. You know I did consider making the point that there may exist certain people and conditions that prevent happiness, but decided I didn't need to as I could assume we understood we were talking generally. My mistake, my apologies, I just had a feeling, I will be sure to listen to it next time. jeffcu990 wrote: But it probably doesn't matter, as my search has exposed happiness as yet another illusion created by our brainless society. Ask someone whether they're happy. "What? How could you ask that? OF COURSE I'm happy!" That is the response you'll get from adults. Are they happy because they have plenty of beer to drink and television shows to watch, not to mention an incredibly weak relationship with their "husband" and "family"? Maybe true happiness does exist. Now tell me what it is! Or tell me you don't know, either. Easy tiger! One love! Free Tibet! and all that!
Studying is like rowing against the current, if you are not moving forward, you are moving backward. - Chinese proverb Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me! - Anon Silence makes the soul feel sick - Timid Timothy

Techeth
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Posted 03/28/08 - 11:31 AM:	#68
Lex wrote: Besides joy, which is not well-defined, I can relate to all others so yes I do have the maths for them. Though it was a forced exaggeration: you did give only that example. But seriously, you do act as if you were the all-knowing spectator: take a closer look, you will find that all that is defined will only exist as long as you choose to define it that way. For example, if my "happiness" ends the moment I attempt to analyze it, clearly it is not the happiness I am looking for. True but only if that's the happiness you are looking for. Which is why I believe there is a happiness that exists that is simply to be enjoyed and appreciated, analyzed, but not overly so? The minute the dog questions why he is chasing his tale is not the problem, it's when why becomes more important. The happiness I understand is fragile, but there. It may only be an echo of the happiness you are looking for, but it’s still an echo of the real deal.
Studying is like rowing against the current, if you are not moving forward, you are moving backward. - Chinese proverb Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me! - Anon Silence makes the soul feel sick - Timid Timothy

Lex
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Posted 03/28/08 - 11:37 AM:	#69
Techeth wrote: True but only if that's the happiness you are looking for. Which is why I believe there is a happiness that exists that is simply to be enjoyed and appreciated, analyzed, but not overly so? The minute the dog questions why he is chasing his tale is not the problem, it's when why becomes more important. The happiness I understand is fragile, but there. It may only be an echo of the happiness you are looking for, but it’s still an echo of the real deal. Thanks, I will go chase my tail now. Seriously, you give ONLY these vague examples that do not even apply to humans and then tell me I exaggerate. Since you claim to know what happiness is, why don't you actually answer my question properly: give me a situation in which YOU are happy (not the treadmill joke again, I mean describe a series of experiences: "Right now, I am happy because XXX XXX XXX"). If you give a satisfying answer, nobody will keep asking you for it, we are all intelligent people here. Techeth wrote: I do not want to come across all knowing Don't worry, you don't. Techeth wrote: A child: "So when people say they are happy what's that?" Authority: "Well to be honest they may not all really be telling the truth, but who want to go around all day saying I feel like suicide for lunch! It's easier to try for some people. You see some people are happy! Because they have something that makes them content, plus gives them a little something extra that they like, that makes them feel good. For those people they don't fuss and bother too much about things they don't think they can control, so even when bad things happen, as long as it's not too bad they don't let it destroy that happiness!" A child: "Why?" Authority: "Well happiness is a nice thing and people like it, it makes the person that is happy feel good. It's a bit selfish that way, but its okay it's still nice to see other people happy!" Techeth: For those people they don't fuss and bother too much about things they don't think they can control, so even when bad things happen, as long as it's not too bad they don't let it destroy that happiness! A child: in other words, people who simply ignore things they don't like? Techeth: well, yes. It's a bit selfish that way, but its okay it's still nice to see other people happy! A child: that just sounds wrong. If happiness is about ignoring things that bother you, what is to prevent my friends from ignoring my pain so that they can feel happy? It would appear that you do not know what you are talking about at all and are irresponsibly telling me how to live. Besides, you still did not answer my question but simply danced around the bush to mask the fact that you cannot answer it at all. Mister, you are a big fraud. Edited by Lex on 03/28/08 - 11:44 AM

Techeth
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Posted 03/28/08 - 12:21 PM:	#70
Lex wrote: Thanks, I will go chase my tail now. Seriously, you give ONLY these vague examples that do not even apply to humans and then tell me I exaggerate. Since you claim to know what happiness is, why don't you actually answer my question properly: give me a situation in which YOU are happy (not the treadmill joke again, I mean describe a series of experiences: "Right now, I am happy because XXX XXX XXX"). If you give a satisfying answer, nobody will keep asking you for it, we are all intelligent people here. OH MY DAYS! Sorry bud, your ability to bypass everything I say of any value is amazing, do you do that to everyone? Are you really gonna ask me for an example of happiness? Listen I don't want to argue just for the sake of arguing, clearly you are incapable of rationally and objectively comprehending what I have written. "Right now, I am happy because XXX XXX XXX" That's a joke right? Can you not understand why asking that is a joke? Lex wrote: Don't worry, you don't. I didn't think so! Thanks for clearing that up though, real weight off my chest! Lex wrote: Techeth: For those people they don't fuss and bother too much about things they don't think they can control, so even when bad things happen, as long as it's not too bad they don't let it destroy that happiness! A child: in other words, people who simply ignore things they don't like? Techeth: well, yes. It's a bit selfish that way, but its okay it's still nice to see other people happy! A child: that just sounds wrong. If happiness is about ignoring things that bother you, what is to prevent my friends from ignoring my pain so that they can feel happy?. NOTHING THEY WOULD JUST BE CRAP FRIENDS!!! Lex wrote: It would appear that you do not know what you are talking about at all and are irresponsibly telling me how to live. Besides, you still did not answer my question but simply danced around the bush to mask the fact that you cannot answer it at all. Mister, you are a big fraud. You are right, I said I thought there was hope for you and I was probably wrong! When did I tell you how to live? How can we talk if you turn everything I write into an insult about you? Listen I'm going to dance around a bush somewhere I am sure we will both gain more from it! Good night and God bless!
Studying is like rowing against the current, if you are not moving forward, you are moving backward. - Chinese proverb Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me! - Anon Silence makes the soul feel sick - Timid Timothy

Lex
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Posted 03/28/08 - 12:38 PM:	#71
Techeth wrote: OH MY DAYS! Sorry bud, your ability to bypass everything I say of any value is amazing, do you do that to everyone? Try saying something of value. Techeth wrote: NOTHING THEY WOULD JUST BE CRAP FRIENDS!!! Why? They just want to be happy? Techeth wrote: You are right, I said I thought there was hope for you and I was probably wrong! When did I tell you how to live? How can we talk if you turn everything I write into an insult about you? Listen I'm going to dance around a bush somewhere I am sure we will both gain more from it! Good night and God bless! Don't get too angry, Mr. Authority. Honestly, all I asked you to do is to reason things out. You give your vague definition of happiness, I give you logical arguments for why that does not really work/does not constitute a valid example, and you act as if I took away your teddy bear. Debate is about PROVING, not overpowering someone with your great (I am certain) zeal for what you believe in.

Techeth
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Posted 03/29/08 - 09:17 AM:	#72
I disagree, I have attempted to reason things out and you have not listen to reason. So what is the value of carrying this on? What have you added to the debate other than, "I disagree, give me proof!" That's it! I would only continue if I wanted you to understand my point of view, and that moment has come and gone. P.S. It's my concept of friends is that they want their friends to be happy, obviously the exact situation is relevant to argue any further. That concept is relevant to why I gave that answer, if you have a different one then great, but that has nothing to do with me. This is what I mean about thinking for yourself, I can't help but imagine you thought that was a clever question! To save time, the answer to any questions you may have in regard to this post is..."Think about it!"
Studying is like rowing against the current, if you are not moving forward, you are moving backward. - Chinese proverb Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me! - Anon Silence makes the soul feel sick - Timid Timothy

Lex
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Posted 03/29/08 - 09:34 AM:	#73
No questions for you. I want to analyze a topic thoroughly, and I dare you to show me one post where you attempted to reason with me and my "unreasonable" response to it. Other than that, I don't really care to waste time arguing with you about who started accusing who first, I want to talk about my topic, and you are getting too upset about it simply because I do not accept your arguments as proof and you refuse to give concrete examples (the dog chasing tail and the treadmill was all you said). For some unknown reason you think that you are brilliant at debating even though you do not really want to follow a logical outline for an argument: you simply assume that I will be convinced by statements such as "happiness is a bit selfish". I give examples of why I think that doesn't work for an intelligent person and get advised to "do some thinking" from a person who has not shown anything resembling reasonable proof. In any case if you wish to continue discussing the original topic, I would be glad to talk, but this particular series of responses is going nowhere.

Techeth
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Posted 03/29/08 - 04:40 PM:	#74
Yes Lex your right, well done, you got me! There's no flies around you!
Studying is like rowing against the current, if you are not moving forward, you are moving backward. - Chinese proverb Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me! - Anon Silence makes the soul feel sick - Timid Timothy

Lex
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Posted 03/29/08 - 05:55 PM:	#75
Don't get it. Anyway do you really enjoy a pointless conversation? If I am not interesting to debate with, then don't, if you are interested, then debate, stop with the personal arguments (as the last one was I'd imagine)

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