What is Enlightenment?

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What is Enlightenment?
Simple Occam
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#71 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Jun 25, 2008 - 3:36 PM:

So what do you see when you turn out the lights....? are you still unenlightened??
unenlightened
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#72 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Jun 26, 2008 - 9:29 AM:

I guess that's the spaciotemporal process of logging off - no process, no enlightenment, but no unenlightenment either. Or. to put it another way, 'I can't tell you...'
the logos
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#73 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Jun 26, 2008 - 9:59 AM:

Simple Occam wrote:
So what do you see when you turn out the lights....? are you still unenlightened??


"....but I know that it's mine." The darkness is a barrier for most because we have relinquished control. The trick is to maintain consciousness through the darkness and out the other side into other planes of existence. I intend to try and stay conscious through my own death. In prepration for this, I will practice lucid dreaming each night.
cckcckcc
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#74 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Jun 26, 2008 - 10:17 AM:

Lucid dreaming is very hard by the way. Are you good at it logos?

unenlightened wrote:
That's more like it! I'm unenlightened, but I get by with a little help from my friends.


Sure your not getting high with a little help from your friends?
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#75 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Jun 26, 2008 - 1:13 PM:

That's not the question. And I'm not going to put the question because I think it's time to change the record. So I ask instead, whatever you think it is, why does enlightenment matter?
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#76 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Jun 26, 2008 - 1:53 PM:

unenlightened wrote:
That's not the question. And I'm not going to put the question because I think it's time to change the record.


Excuse my off topic post. It was a play on the song "With a Little Help from My Friends" by the Beatles by the way, not intended to change the topic.

unenlightened wrote:
So I ask instead, whatever you think it is, why does enlightenment matter?


I don't think enlightenment necissarily does matter. I think it is equally sufficient to any other device humanity has created or found and used to cope with the rigors and fear associated with life and death. I personally find solace in the understanding of life and ultimately finding a means by which to extend myself past the confines of just mortal life. Enlightenment would allow me to do that and I recommend the pursuit of it to all those who are searching for something similar to what I was. So I say enlightenment matters if you want it to, but to those that don't care for it or simply don't accept its existance, it does not matter. There is no argument for or against it, only of its existance.
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#77 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Jun 26, 2008 - 3:18 PM:

cckcckcc wrote:
Lucid dreaming is very hard by the way. Are you good at it logos?


Sometimes. I figure by the time I have mastered it, I'll be ready for death.

Unenlightened wrote:
why does enlightenment matter?


It is a fulfillment of human potential, which has to do with having control over your mind. Much of it has to do with a negative approach to life (in an eastern sense), which is something that most people ignore. The way I see it, all existence is +, whether it be a thought or a meteor or a baseball. Someone that is capable of utilizing/understanding negativity, or what 0 really means, admits a whole different power into their life. Most people only understand the + and are, therefore, only capable of making + entities submit to their will. Basically, unless you open yourself up to the negative part of life, you forsake enlightenment. Many people have equated evil with negative, which is absurd, and they go their entire lives without ever understanding the converse situation.
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#78 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Jun 26, 2008 - 3:43 PM:

Agreed logos. I remit my prior statement "I think it is equally suffiecient to any other device humanity has created or found to cope with the rigors and fear associated with life and death." Instead I suggest that enlightenment is superior to those other devices if you do not value illusion as an answer. In otherwords, faith is equally capable of giving a person contentment with their mortality, but enlightenment seeks to do so with the pursuit of understanding as opposed to only accepting.
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Posted Jul 3, 2008 - 11:30 AM:

the logos wrote:
I never referred to myself as a "master", nor did I call you immature. Can you falsify your claim that immortality is not true?


No, you didn't refer to yourself as a master, but you did represent yourself as seeking to inform others about things you think they am ignorant of. You don't even know where to begin, you say.

Look at this stuff you write:


It is a fulfillment of human potential, which has to do with having control over your mind. Much of it has to do with a negative approach to life (in an eastern sense), which is something that most people ignore. The way I see it, all existence is +, whether it be a thought or a meteor or a baseball. Someone that is capable of utilizing/understanding negativity, or what 0 really means, admits a whole different power into their life. Most people only understand the + and are, therefore, only capable of making + entities submit to their will. Basically, unless you open yourself up to the negative part of life, you forsake enlightenment. Many people have equated evil with negative, which is absurd, and they go their entire lives without ever understanding the converse situation.




You don't have a special control over your mind that other people don't have.

Most people don't ignore the negative aspects of life, otherwise their independent existence would be impossible. There isn't another special kind of negativity that you know about and others don't.

You are not capable of making + entities submit to your will in a way other people are not.

You have no special knowledge, abilities or accomplishments. Your claims are bogus.










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#80 - Quote - Permalink
Posted Jul 3, 2008 - 11:35 AM:

You don't need to be enlightened to understand what enlightenment is. If you didn't understand what it enlightenment is before you are enlightened, how could you ever become it? I guess one could stumble upon it by accident, but I can also guess that is a once in a existance chance, hence there was only one Buddha not 40.


The Escapist wrote:
You don't have a special control over your mind that other people don't have.

Most people don't ignore the negative aspects of life, otherwise their independent existence would be impossible. There isn't another special kind of negativity that you know about and others don't.

You are not capable of making + entities submit to your will in a way other people are not.

You have no special knowledge, abilities or accomplishments. Your claims are bogus.


For you to claim this, is itself bogus. A fallacy by inductive reasoning. How do you know that he doesn't possess this. Need we be masters to possess it or only adepts? And since your claim requires you to have all knowledge of his thoughts as well as others, it falls short of his argument by way of Ocham's Razor.


Edited by cckcckcc on Jul 3, 2008 - 11:44 AM
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