What causes racial hatred: racists or racial friction?

What causes racial hatred: racists or racial friction?
JosephMorgan
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Posted Jun 8, 2003 - 6:59 AM:

Does anyone else appreciate the irony that we rhetorically attack racism, yet support increasing racial diversity in communities? Racial hatred is caused by racial friction; racial friction is caused by two or more races trying to share the same territory. Racists are the symptom, the byproduct of racial diversity.

The greater the racial diversity, the greater the racial hatred in a community. Right? Isn't that we have been discovering in this noble experiment to get humankind to transcend its tribal nature?

-- Promote mono-racial societies, and you are promoting societies that are free of racial hatred.
-- Promote multi-racial societies, and you are promoting racial hatred.

The dilemma for us who support multi-culturalism is what balance do we strike between the benefits of multi-culturalism and the amount of racial hatred we can tolerate.
Vecsus
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Posted Jun 8, 2003 - 7:56 AM:

i disagree with your entire post. Mono-racial societies? That has been tried and it has failed. First off, who decids who lives where? One region will be more desirable than another. Who gets it? Secondly, your plan negates peoples right to choose where they live and with whom.

IMHO, racial friction is caused largely by ignorance. People have preconceived notions about what another race is supposed to be like and they act upon that notion without letting a persons actions speak for themselves. I fail to see how you can judge someone based soley on their appearance.

Racial tension is only one divider in a community. What about economic status. Do you look at a white man in an italian business suit the same way you look at a white man with a mullet, nascar shirt, and overalls? I venture to say you do. They are both white so in your world they belong in the same community. But there is a bigger lifestyle difference between those two white men then there is between a white and black lawyer that work together in the same firm.

"-- Promote mono-racial societies, and you are promoting societies that are free of racial hatred". I propose that the opposite is true. You learn a whole lot more about a person if you live and work with them.

I grew up in a middle-class suburb of a big city. The private school i went to had one black student (for one year) in the entire 7 years i went there. I never had a job where i worked with any minorities until i joined the US Air Force. Suddenly in was in a world full of people of various races. I could have take all the television stereotypes and used them to judge people. Instead, i decided to put everyone on the same level and let their actions dictate how i thought about them. Since then i have become educated about different cultures and learned how to appreciate them for what they are. Most racists took the other path, they decided to let all those stupid stereotypes dictate how they would deal with the people around them. A racist thinks that his way is the only right one. That his food is better. His music superior. His clothing more accpetable. What the racist misses out on is the variety of life. We are all on this planet together. We need to learn to get along.
Vecsus
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Posted Jun 8, 2003 - 7:59 AM:

One more note regarding your comment that we "support increasing racial diversity in communities". I think you are mistaking peoples desire to get in touch with their culture or roots with an attempt to segregate a segment of society from the rest of it.
wuliheron
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Posted Jun 8, 2003 - 8:39 AM:

Racism is no different in many respects than any other kind of bigotry. Interestingly enough, in the modern US racism has largely been reduced to blacks vs whites. Nobody gives a hoot anymore if you are of irish catholic decent, but at one time want ads in the papers often carried the statement, "Irish Catholics Need Not Apply." Similarly, the early settlers in the US largely considered the native americans to be whites who had just been out in the sun too long.

In other words, it isn't multi-culturalism vs racism that is the issue. It is bigotry and entrenched economic interests that are the issues. Notably, extremes of classism and capitalism go hand in hand with fundamentalism and the US is by far the most religiously fundamentalist country in the developed world. With its black and white views of reality it comes as no surprise that fundamentalism also supports blacks vs whites and deplores the idea of multi-culturalism or, at best, is merely willing to tolerate it in the hope of converting all those heathen savages to fundamentalism.

Religious fundamentalism is not the only kind of fundamentalism influencing reducing multi-culturalism to black and white issues either. Essentially the black is never white, truth is never falsehood, etc. worldviews of the modern world can be directly traced to Aristotle's creation of formal logic. First the Catholic church and then the Muslim world intergrated his logic into not only their religions but their entire societies as a whole including the scientific and philosophical institutions. This is why history is also repleate with secular figures like Hitler who also deplored multi-culturalism and fought it using extreme measures and black and white rhetoric.
darkcrow
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Posted Jun 8, 2003 - 9:12 AM:

One more note regarding your comment that we "support increasing racial diversity in communities". I think you are mistaking peoples desire to get in touch with their culture or roots with an attempt to segregate a segment of society from the rest of it.



“The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.”
Theodore Roosevelt
No nation can survive if it does not unite the people in a common culture. America is where people go to become something different, not to maintain the failed cultures they are fleeing.
Diversity - forcing the dominant culture to submit to the intolerances of all other cultures.
It’s all in how you define it.
sven
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Posted Jun 8, 2003 - 9:16 AM:

Originally posted by JosephMorgan
[B] Racial hatred is caused by racial friction; racial friction is caused by two or more races trying to share the same territory. Racists are the symptom, the byproduct of racial diversity.

I disagree with this completely, IMO racial hatred is caused by the lack of understanding that the human race is diverse, either through ignorance or the unwillingness to understand. Racists are the symptom of generations of ignorance, and propoganda by the the elements who benefit from xenophobic division in the working class.

-- Promote mono-racial societies, and you are promoting societies that are free of racial hatred.
-- Promote multi-racial societies, and you are promoting racial hatred.

I don't think it works like that, Hitler promoted mono-racial societies, but I would not regard it as being free from racial hatred, quite the opposite.
JosephMorgan
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Posted Jun 8, 2003 - 12:18 PM:

Vecsus: Mono-racial societies? That has been tried and it has failed.

Actually, the history of the world has been that of mono-racial societies.

My post did not advocate them, but merely gave the common sense source of racial hatred: racial friction, and asked that we not mistake the symptoms, racists, for the cause.

I guess I'm asking if we should seek a balance between the benefits of multi-culturalism and the amount of racial hatred we can tolerate.
JosephMorgan
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Posted Jun 8, 2003 - 12:26 PM:

wuliheron: In other words, it isn't multi-culturalism vs racism that is the issue. It is bigotry and entrenched economic interests that are the issues.

The issue is the friction created by diversity in society, in general, and specifically about the racial friction created by 2 or more races trying to share the same territory. To blame racists for racial hatred, would mean you would have to say that Israel boils over with racial hatred and cruelty because the Jews are all bigots.

Bigotry has to do with making decisions not based upon reason or experience. For example, Israel is a classic apartheid state. The Jews want a place to preserve their race and culture, to be able to create a safe environment for their people. They have established a Jewish state.

To call that bigoted is false. I think they are using sound reasoning and their world experience to segregate themselves and create a “racist” apartheid state.

I don’t think there is a balance in Israel between multi-culturalism and the amount of racial hatred they can tolerate. Israel is too small to countenance any degree of racial hatred.
wuliheron
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Posted Jun 8, 2003 - 12:43 PM:

Originally posted by JosephMorgan
wuliheron: In other words, it isn't multi-culturalism vs racism that is the issue. It is bigotry and entrenched economic interests that are the issues.

The issue is the friction created by diversity in society, in general, and specifically about the racial friction created by 2 or more races trying to share the same territory. To blame racists for racial hatred, would mean you would have to say that Israel boils over with racial hatred and cruelty because the Jews are all bigots.

Bigotry has to do with making decisions not based upon reason or experience. For example, Israel is a classic apartheid state. The Jews want a place to preserve their race and culture, to be able to create a safe environment for their people. They have established a Jewish state.

To call that bigoted is false. I think they are using sound reasoning and their world experience to segregate themselves and create a “racist” apartheid state.

I don’t think there is a balance in Israel between multi-culturalism and the amount of racial hatred they can tolerate. Israel is too small to countenance any degree of racial hatred.


One third of Isrealis citizens are Palestinian. Bigotry comes in all forms, not just racial, but they all tend to concentrate in the same people.

A good friend of mine lived on an Israeli Kabuttz for quite some time. He saw five year old palestinian boys doing a mans work in the fields for a pitance. These boys were not citizens, but immigrant workers, the Israeli version of a wetback and just as well used and abused, looked down upon and derided by Iraeli society. These are the issues, of course, that the american mass media doesn't cover so well, it brings to much attention to the american wetbacks and their mistreatment.

Again, it is not so much diversity in society that is an issue that can contribute to racism, but fundamentalism, social stratification, and economics.
Vecsus
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Posted Jun 8, 2003 - 1:02 PM:

it brings to much attention to the american wetbacks and their mistreatment

but never forget who crossed the border to get here. there are very few cases of forced labor using illegal imigrants. if they want to stop working all they need to do is find the nearest INS agent for a free trip back home.
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