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Variant Dictionary Definitions

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Variant Dictionary Definitions
scarborough
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Posted 11/23/08 - 02:14 PM:
Subject: Variant Dictionary Definitions 		quote post
#1
What is the significance of the same words in different dictionaries having variant definitions? If one rules out the problem of diverse meanings, there would still appear to be no complete agreement on “identical” meanings. For example:

Car ...
... wheeled vehicle (OED)
... a vehicle with four wheels and an engine, that can carry a small number of passengers (Longman)
... a light vehicle (Nutall's)
... a vehicle moved on wheels (Chamber's)
... an automobile (The Free Dictionary)

Edited by scarborough on 11/23/08 - 02:20 PM
swstephe
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Posted 11/23/08 - 07:15 PM:
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#2
Language is imprecise and ambiguous. Our brains categorize things according to attributes of interest and within a context, (a "car" is different for someone in a general context compared to someone who is talking about trains). Definitions follow an older tradition of attempting to define one ambiguous word by redescribing it with another set of ambiguous words. There is the classic example of dictionary entries that refer to each other for definition, but nothing is really defined. For better definitions, you could take a look at the work being done on semantic web -- a kind of map of categorizations and associations between words, (usually English).
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Posted 11/24/08 - 09:33 AM:
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#3
But, a Truck is an automobile.

The problem with language is that it is representative; so outside of telepathy and perfect languages, it's pretty legitimate. I think the numerous definitions represented in a dictionary are a feeble attempt to convey the meaning/idea that the word is/represents.

The thing about language is that other people use it- always differently. We can agree upon the meaning of a word, but it's often difficult to use it congruently.

I prefer a thesaurus to a dictionary.
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Incision
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Posted 11/24/08 - 11:32 PM:
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#4
I'd suspect it comes from meanings being vague, and dictionary definitions being precise. There simply are no exact boundaries to what a car is. Some things definitely are cars, some definitely aren't, and with some it's hard to say. There are multiple ways to capture what a car "pretty much is."
makerowner
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Posted 11/25/08 - 07:30 AM:
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Incision wrote:
I'd suspect it comes from meanings being vague, and dictionary definitions being precise. There simply are no exact boundaries to what a car is. Some things definitely are cars, some definitely aren't, and with some it's hard to say. There are multiple ways to capture what a car "pretty much is."


And that's why extensionalist semantics fail IMO. There simply is no "set of all cars" that the predicate "is a car" could refer to.
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ade90212
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Posted 11/27/08 - 11:23 AM:
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#6
Dictionaries give definitions.

They do not give meanings.
"Philosophers often behave like little children who scribble some marks on a piece of paper at random and then ask the grown-up "What's that?" - It happened like this: the grown-up had drawn pictures for the child several times and said: "this is a man", "this is a house", etc. And then the child makes some marks too and asks: what's this then?" - Ludwig Wittgenstein, Culture and Value
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Posted 11/27/08 - 11:26 PM:
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#7
scarborough wrote:
What is the significance of the same words in different dictionaries having variant definitions? If one rules out the problem of diverse meanings, there would still appear to be no complete agreement on “identical” meanings. For example:

Car ...
... wheeled vehicle (OED)
... a vehicle with four wheels and an engine, that can carry a small number of passengers (Longman)
... a light vehicle (Nutall's)
... a vehicle moved on wheels (Chamber's)
... an automobile (The Free Dictionary)


The dictionary explains the entry of demand as an urgent requirement. When it explains the entry of requirement, we found the explanation as: a thing demand.
That is the language. That is why the Socrates said that his can’t even find a single word could be regard as real word. What we can do is increase the quantity of information during the same time, in other word, to increase the information rate. It works like we use derivative of mathematics to calculate the area, closing the curve step by step.
ying
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Posted 11/28/08 - 09:50 PM:
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#8
scarborough wrote:
What is the significance of the same words in different dictionaries having variant definitions? If one rules out the problem of diverse meanings, there would still appear to be no complete agreement on “identical” meanings. For example:

Car ...
... wheeled vehicle (OED)
... a vehicle with four wheels and an engine, that can carry a small number of passengers (Longman)
... a light vehicle (Nutall's)
... a vehicle moved on wheels (Chamber's)
... an automobile (The Free Dictionary)


Short answer: They're written by different people. Different people come up with different definitions.

Long answer: Languages change over time through modifications of words (over time, people basically make words easier to say by changing certain phonemes), borrowing of foreign words, the shifting of higher into lower language, creole, pidgin etc. So, both the individual words and their meaning change. But dictionaries try to capture a "moment" in this changing landscape, and as such, can't capture the actual usage.

Do note that I think the short answer is more applicable to the examples you've given. The long answer would be more applicable to changes in dictionaries spanning a longer period.
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scarborough
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Posted 12/02/08 - 07:43 AM:
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#9
swstephe: What is the reason that “nothing is defined”? What does this signify? What lies at the root of that? (The semantic web wouldn’t seem to be very intuitive would it -- it requires massive manual input)

ManiacJack: What is the reason that words are not used “congruently”? Is one really using the same words then? Or what is one doing?

Incision: Why are there “no exact boundaries”? Could such boundaries, in principle, be established or "honed"? Or is something else going on?

ade90212: What is the definition of meaning? wink More seriously, what is one saying when one says that words have “meanings”? What does this say about the nature of those words?

Cheng-Zhong Su: A very interesting remark about Socrates. I searched for it, but could not find it.

ying: If “languages change over time”, they have to change through people. How would I know that those variant dictionary definitions are “different definitions” rather than manifestations of “change over time”? And how would this reflect on what those words in the dictionary really are?
ade90212
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Posted 12/02/08 - 02:03 PM:
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#10
My point really was that there seems to be a tendency to conflate 'definition' and 'meaning'. In general, the meaning of a word is the use that we make of it. A definition serves to give us indications as to how to use the word. Furthermore, not all meanings of a word will have corresponding entries in the dictionary, or anywhere else for that matter.
"Philosophers often behave like little children who scribble some marks on a piece of paper at random and then ask the grown-up "What's that?" - It happened like this: the grown-up had drawn pictures for the child several times and said: "this is a man", "this is a house", etc. And then the child makes some marks too and asks: what's this then?" - Ludwig Wittgenstein, Culture and Value
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