Unstoppable Force Vs. Immovable Object

Unstoppable Force Vs. Immovable Object
Testingzors
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Posted Dec 10, 2005 - 12:51 AM:
Subject: Unstoppable Force Vs. Immovable Object
I suppose it's a simple subject, but it's one that's been on my head for a while.

My theory:
Keeping in mind the fact that the immovable object's atoms are assumably in a fixed position (meaning they aren't moving? would this mean the object cannot exist since atoms in everything are constantly moving?), meaning the unstoppable force's electrons will not be able to fit through, somehow. Another thing to consider is that the unstoppable force's atoms are in the fixed position of "straight ahead", and so they could not be stopped. My conclusion, brought about only because I should have one, is that the atoms would somehow alter their shape to accomidate this lack of movement, that, or the universe would just cease to exist.

I want to hear some opinions. Fire away.
Andrew Saunders
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Posted Dec 10, 2005 - 1:28 AM:

Testingzors wrote:
I suppose it's a simple subject, but it's one that's been on my head for a while.

My theory:
Keeping in mind the fact that the immovable object's atoms are assumably in a fixed position (meaning they aren't moving? would this mean the object cannot exist since atoms in everything are constantly moving?), meaning the unstoppable force's electrons will not be able to fit through, somehow. Another thing to consider is that the unstoppable force's atoms are in the fixed position of "straight ahead", and so they could not be stopped. My conclusion, brought about only because I should have one, is that the atoms would somehow alter their shape to accomidate this lack of movement, that, or the universe would just cease to exist.

I want to hear some opinions. Fire away.



Obviously this whole scenario is all hypothetical -we don't need to worry about the precise physics involved -ie atoms being frozen.

Having said that, let's begin to work with the situation.

First, we need clear definitions of immovable and unstoppable.

Next, we look to see whether there is something inherent in those definition that leads to a contradiction, in which case the scenario as described is logically impossible.

That is most likely the case.

Alternatively, if they are compatible, it may be explained by perhaps having the unstoppable force pass through the immovable object -the object never moves, the force isnt stopped.

TecnoTut
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Posted Dec 10, 2005 - 9:13 PM:

Andrew Saunders wrote:

Alternatively, if they are compatible, it may be explained by perhaps having the unstoppable force pass through the immovable object -the object never moves, the force isnt stopped.



I think his point is that the unstoppable force movies anything in its way and the immovable objects stops anything coming its way.
Mr Jack
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Posted Dec 15, 2005 - 7:21 AM:

Logically an unstoppable force and an immovable object cannot exist in the same universe.
wuliheron
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Posted Dec 17, 2005 - 1:25 AM:

Our's is demonstrably a universe of irresitable forces such as a black hole. An immoveable object could only exist in a different universe with totally different laws of physics. In other words, the answer to the puzzle is that the two can never meet.
Floyd
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Posted Dec 17, 2005 - 2:46 AM:

Power is all relative; And, this is an issue of power.

Similar to the question: Could a supposedly all-powerful god could make a sandwich so big even he couldn't eat it?

-Floyd
Andrew Saunders
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Posted Dec 17, 2005 - 5:25 PM:

Mr Jack wrote:
Logically an unstoppable force and an immovable object cannot exist in the same universe.


yes they could, so long as they never encountered eachother.
Mr Jack
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Posted Dec 19, 2005 - 10:19 AM:

Andrew Saunders wrote:
yes they could, so long as they never encountered eachother.


No they couldn't.

Unstoppable, and immovable both define closed limits on the same set of possible things and their definitions contradict.
JoelTHE
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Posted Dec 24, 2005 - 11:17 AM:

I would tend to agree with the last post that "unstoppable" and "immovable" are mutually exclusive limitations on the same set of physical possibilities.

That being said, your initial question is also flawed in terms of the physics involved. An unstoppable/immovable object's atoms are not frozen, nor are those in any object of any density, temperature, material, etc.

An object is a grouping of atoms/molecules/etc. that act as a closed system, not unlike people in a car. The people are not part of the car, they just act with it as part of its system.

Therefore an unstoppable object would be one that merely contains more mass and/or momentum than any existing object (or series of objects) has the capability of stopping, and conversely an immovable object could just be so dense or so massive that no existing object (or series of objects) could attain the kinetic energy necessary to move it.

Therefore, it is true, and seemingly scientifically unarguable that it is impossible for an immovable object and an unstoppable force to exist together in the same universe.

Unless you want to include unrealistic factors...but I doubt you want to do that... wink
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Posted Dec 25, 2005 - 5:02 PM:

"What happens when an unstoppable cannonball hits an immovable post" 'What is the name of this book' (Raymond Smullyan) This is a book of logic puzzles that are fun to try and solve. After many years of pondering the puzzle I thought that the only possibility was that they pass through each other. However unlikely it would be that all of their atoms are arranged so they don't hit each other, it seems it's a least a possibility. That would agree with someone elses comment that they never encounter each other. The other possibility is that atoms are not hard little balls of matter but are ultimately made up of consciousness. Thats the Budhist perspective. Consciousness is a way of being, a verb. So, matter which is a form of consciousness,ultimetly, is not a thing that can be characterised as immovable or unstoppable. smiling face
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