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Universe "tailor made" for us
interesting read..

Universe "tailor made" for us

coalclear
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Posted 06/17/09 - 03:30 PM: Subject: Universe "tailor made" for us	#1
"The world appears to be designed for life, not just at the microscope scale of the atom, but at the level of the universe itself. Scientists have discovered that the universe has a long list of traits that make it appear as if everything it contains — from atoms to stars — was tailor-made just for us. If the Big Bang had been one part in a million more powerful, it would have rushed out too fast for the galaxies and life to develop. Result: no us. If the strong nuclear force were decreased two percent, atomic nuclei wouldn’t hold together, and plain-vanilla hydrogen would be the only kind of atom in the universe. If the gravitational force were decreased by a hair, stars — including the sun — would not ignite. In fact, all of the universe's forces and constants are just perfectly set up for atomic interactions, the existence of atoms and elements, planets, liquid water and life. Tweak any of them and you never existed. Many are calling this revelation the “Goldilocks Principle,” because the cosmos is not “too this” or “too that,” but rather “just right” for life. At the moment, there are only four explanations for this mystery. One is to argue for incredible coincidence. Another is to say, "God did that," which explains nothing even if it is true. The third is to invoke the anthropic principle’s reasoning that we must find these conditions if we are alive, because, what else could we find? The final option is biocentrism pure and simple, which explains how the universe is created by life. Obviously, no universe that doesn’t allow for life could possibly exist; the universe and its parameters simply reflect the spatio-temporal logic of animal existence." was reading this http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/313930...ology_and_science-science/ (pg.5) and was wondering if in fact, the universe is sort of 'tailor made' for us, and if it is a HUGE (understatement) coincidence that we exist at all. Also was thinking that you guys could come up with more than 4 explanations for this.. Feedback please
"Submerge yourself into what you love so much that it becomes you." "The universe surrenders to your thoughts of it, that, is the ultimate power."

keda
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Posted 06/17/09 - 03:46 PM:	#2
If you have ever zoomed in on for instance the mandlebrot fractal, it might occur to you that you are actually looking at something interesting in a vast sea of uninteresting stuff. Maybe that's life, in a vast sea of infinite number of big bangs, separated so far from each other, spatially and temporally their effect on one another are neglible, or maybe the seed out life into each other in an almost infinitely slow evolution. I don't know. God forbid bringing in the God excuse
All about making money Free Europe Now How to fix your country In thought, men distance themselves from nature in order thus imaginatively to present it to themselves--but only in order to determine how it is to be dominated - Adorno and Horkheimer

Cadrache
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Posted 06/17/09 - 03:49 PM:	#3
God... that is such dumb reasoning. No offence; I mean the origins of 'tailor-made' universe. If you have a plaid fabric, and you are a line on a plaid fabric; and it states "this fabric is made for lines that criss-cross each other...." You see my problem with the argument? Of course this viewpoint is excluding the 'religious' aspect like God, and ID theory.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Cadrache
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Posted 06/17/09 - 03:53 PM:	#4
Sigh... I mean let's take the size of the Earth alone; which is one of the few locations of actual 100% verifiable proof where life exists.. What percentage is earth compared to um... let's say Saturn? The mostly middle sized item piece of matter that is within the volumed area that we call our solar system.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Cadrache
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Posted 06/17/09 - 04:03 PM:	#5
As to why this could be a valid idea. 1. Mathematics when concerning 'infinity' validates their argument. "infinity minus one is still infinity." Even if the number of habitable planets is an extremely small value for the total number of planets that exist in the universe, the subtraction of any value X means that there is still an infinite number of other planets. This means that the subtraction of the total number of inhabitable planets leaves you with an infinite number of other planets which are habitable. PS: I'll write something more akin to what you are looking for later. Maybe post it tonight, or tommorrow. I haven't seen much in the 'discussion' aspect to this particular statement before. Nice idea.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

wuliheron
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Posted 06/17/09 - 07:35 PM:	#6
Another possible explanation is that it is merely our limited perspective that makes these variables appear to be just right for life as we know it to exist. The ancient Greek philosophers who discovered the golden ratio saw that it was pervasive in nature and created a mystical sect around this simple mathematical principle. People began "discovering" the ratio even in places that we now know it does not exist. For all physicists know the laws and variables of nature are inevitable and unavoidable.

Rilx
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Posted 06/18/09 - 05:00 AM:

The most obvious explanation is that we are tailor made by the universe. This is our universe; we have emerged from and within it. We exist in this universe: we have evolved in it, by the same premises as everything else. We are a natural and seamless part of our universe.

I don't see any problems arising until someone proposes that we are basically dropped as aliens into our universe.

"In the life, there are no solutions. There are forces in motion. Those need to be created, and solutions follow." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery, Night Flight

Crackers
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Posted 06/22/09 - 10:47 AM:	#8
Observation: The human physiology is compatible with the Universe. Proposition 1: The Universe was "tailor made" for us. Proposition 2: We were "tailor made" for the Universe. Nietzsche wrote: The error of confusing cause and effect. There is no more dangerous error than that of mistaking the effect for the cause: I call it the real corruption of reason. The assertion that the Universe was made for us is a megalomanic delusion that has one believing that they are higher, more valuable, than the Universe itself and thus the Universe must exist primarily to permit our existence, which includes the misunderstanding that things of subsequent value exist for that which is of a higher value, such that: humanity is the most valuable thing in the Universe, therefore the Universe and all other things of it exist for the sake of humanity, and so, "The Universe was 'tailor made' for us." "First there came the idea of Man, then came the idea of Man's place to live." Which doesn't seem compatible with the story of genesis (where it is unknown wether God made the Universe for Man, or wether Man was an after-thought that followed the creation of the Universe), yet many Christians believe that the Universe, indeed, was 'tailor made' for us. As though we assume, on God's part, that He made all His subsequent creations so that He could then make us. Edited by Crackers on 06/22/09 - 11:10 AM

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