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Universal Values

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Universal Values

mpoissant17
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Posted 03/17/09 - 04:09 PM: Subject: Universal Values	#1
I do not believe that there is a universal moral code for humanity. What is consistent in all humans, though, is a set of values. Their are eight values that are consistent with all of humanity: -Life -Happiness -Security -Truth -Liberty -Future -Justic e -Status These are not in any order of importance whatsoever. The priorities of these values is dependent on the individual therfore creating diverse moral codes. Tell me your thoughts.
"Not to be absolutely certain is, I think, one of the essential things in rationality." Bertrand Russell

reincarnated
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Posted 03/18/09 - 02:12 AM:	#2
It seems to me that "future" is redundant in this list? - we surely value everything else on the list because of the way these things (may) relate to our futures, and valuing future itself in absence of anything else on the list would seem to be pointless? Also I'm not sure what you mean by truth and justice in this context - I suspect we may end up with some self-reference? Could you elaborate? How do the following things impact our values: Material wealth/possessions Health Physical comfort Pleasure / joy / excitement Friendship / companionship Family What we consider "natural" and "unnatural" Self esteem, respect, achievement Self-actualisation
crumpled bits of paper, filled with imperfect thoughts... we all talk a different language, talking in defence... and if you don't give up, and don't give in, you may just be ok... (Mike & The Mechanics, "The Living Years")

sensabile
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Posted 03/18/09 - 06:12 AM:	#3
mpoissant17 wrote: I do not believe that there is a universal moral code for humanity. What is consistent in all humans, though, is a set of values. Their are eight values that are consistent with all of humanity: -Life -Happiness -Security -Truth -Liberty -Future -Justic e -Status These are not in any order of importance whatsoever. The priorities of these values is dependent on the individual therfore creating diverse moral codes. Tell me your thoughts. How is this helpful?
For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

Yahadreas
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Posted 03/18/09 - 10:21 AM:	#4
mpoissant17 wrote: I do not believe that there is a universal moral code for humanity. What is consistent in all humans, though, is a set of values. Their are eight values that are consistent with all of humanity: -Life -Happiness -Security -Truth -Liberty -Future -Justice -Status Status? I don't care about status. And not only do I not care about justice; I oppose it. And if these values aren't true for me then they are't true for all humanity. And therefore are not universal.
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reincarnated
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Posted 03/18/09 - 11:19 AM:	#5
Yahadreas wrote: And if these values aren't true for me then they are't true for all humanity. Really? Can you present a sound argument which leads to this conclusion?
crumpled bits of paper, filled with imperfect thoughts... we all talk a different language, talking in defence... and if you don't give up, and don't give in, you may just be ok... (Mike & The Mechanics, "The Living Years")

voyaging
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Posted 03/18/09 - 11:22 AM:	#6
reincarnated wrote: Really? Can you present a sound argument which leads to this conclusion? Seriously? For something to be true for all of humanity, it needs to be present in every part of humanity. If it is not true in one person, then it is only true for most of humanity.
A witty saying proves nothing.

Yahadreas
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Posted 03/18/09 - 11:23 AM:	#7
reincarnated wrote: Really? Can you present a sound argument which leads to this conclusion? 1. For something to be true for all humanity it must be true for every individual human. 2. I am human. 3. At least one of the claimed universal values is not true for me. 4. Therefore, those values which are not true for me are not true for all humanity.
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DeReel
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Posted 03/18/09 - 11:59 AM:	#8
This comes from "positive psychology". I would like to see how one can draw this conclusion for "the all of humanity", because, at first, I don't believe it is possible. Worldwide experiment ?

M Locke
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Posted 03/18/09 - 12:30 PM:	#9
I can see where he drew the conclusion that humanity has universal values, even if it is not true. When law systems or taboos of ancient cultures and civilizations are examined, common themes such as justice, equality (or lack thereof), property, and reverence of life can be found. However, what reincarnated failed to realize is that these were formed as human desire for organization, a survival trait developed in our evolution. Humans tried to organize themselves in society, and required standards to make sure people stayed where they were meant stay. Because we are also social creatures, that would mean that many of us would prefer it if we did not meaninglessly slaughter each other. That's how the common government theme of reverence for life came about. Justice arose because people became pissed when others did something to wrong them, but people were even more pissed if the person was lynched on the spot for it, because some was depending on them. As I stated before, we are a social species. These supposed universal values arose natural in government because of how SOME people felt; otherwise, all governments would be the same. Therefore, not everyone has the same value, and some people don't care about certain aspects altogether.

mpoissant17
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Posted 03/18/09 - 01:04 PM:	#10
reincarnated wrote: It seems to me that "future" is redundant in this list? - we surely value everything else on the list because of the way these things (may) relate to our futures, and valuing future itself in absence of anything else on the list would seem to be pointless? You can not be happy constantly working for the future because the present is the only period in which you can experiance. People who are truly happy live in the present. The value of future is valuing preparation for your future state. You cannot be happy in the future because you only experiance the present. reincarnated wrote: Also I'm not sure what you mean by truth and justice in this context - I suspect we may end up with some self-reference? Could you elaborate? People often pursue the truth even if they no it will not bring them happiness. If people did not value truth then they would have no need or want for a free press or books for that matter. For example the fact that a government offical is corrupt does not bring happiness but most people still wish to know about it. Justice is a value that does not fit into any other of the values so I gave it its own. People want retribution for actions that bring harm mostly to themselves. Why do you think revenge is such a driving force? Justice is one of those values that can take priority over all the others until it is achieved. There have been multiple instances where a husband kills another man for raping his wife. Justice does not necessarily bring you happiness for when you kill another man there are bound to be negative consequences that cause you to regret that instance. reincarnated wrote: How do the following things impact our values: Material wealth/possessions Health Physical comfort Pleasure / joy / excitement Friendship / companionship Family What we consider "natural" and "unnatural" Self esteem, respect, achievement Self-actualisation -Material wealth/possessions=happiness and/or status -Health=security and/or life and/or future -Physical comfort=happiness -Pleasure/joy/excitement=happiness -Companionship=happi ness and/or status -Family=happiness -natural vs unnatural=please explain -self esteem=happiness -respect=status -achievement=status and/or happiness -self actualization=truth and/or happiness
"Not to be absolutely certain is, I think, one of the essential things in rationality." Bertrand Russell

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