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Understanding heavy metal

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Understanding heavy metal

vykk_draygo
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Posted 01/23/09 - 12:30 PM:	#21
armchairphilosopher wrote: Music is frequently good for one's emotional balance. Many frustrated people, who repress feelings of anger etc, find 'angry music' useful and enjoyable. Where 'metal' has evolved in to more melodic, or more peaceful forms it is usually due to the followers growing and changing, which could mean that angry frustrated youths grew up and settled down, or that the image was attractive to folk who really aren't in to the aggressive side of the music. Oldest rocker in town: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7826717.stm[/quote] Wow, thats like the coolest old man I've ever seen. Right now I'm listening to God of Thunder by Kiss, and I thought it was playing in that news video, rather than my iTunes. Seriously though, that guy has some great LPs.
"But are not the dreams of poets and the tales of travellers notoriously false?" H.P. Lovecraft

Banno
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Posted 01/23/09 - 01:18 PM:	#22
An interesting question, Tobias. I've not much interest in recent Heavy Metal, but recall it's history. The roots of heavy metal can be traced very clearly, not to the working class so much as to slavery. There is a direct line of development from the chicago blues to Led Zeppelin; Zep were essentially a blues band. The sound that became heavy metal was developed in groups like the YardBirds, Pete Green's Fleetwood Mac and Cream. Jimi Hendrix played amplified blues. (A few years ago there was a series of books that set out this rock genealogy; well worth the investment if you can find them, but I can't recall title or author. Those who are screaming "Yardbirds aren't metal" would do well to consider who their audience was, who was in the line-up, and what the chord progressions and base lines looked like. Yes, it was nescient Metal.) The religious theme, and the interest in the devil, come from those blues roots; consider "Crossroads". The angst of the lost soul. The romantic theme is there in Zep and in Cream, Hendrix, and so on. It may have been submerged, but is not something new. The development of pop music is fickle. But the benefit of hindsight allows us to make up a story about its development. True or not, it makes some sense. (Edit: Buggered if I can work out why they wold have girls doing vocals, though...)
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

180 Proof
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Posted 01/24/09 - 01:59 PM:	#23
Banno wrote: An interesting question, Tobias. I've not much interest in recent Heavy Metal, but recall it's history. The roots of heavy metal can be traced very clearly, not to the working class so much as to slavery. There is a direct line of development from the chicago blues to Led Zeppelin; Zep were essentially a blues band. The sound that became heavy metal was developed in groups like the YardBirds, Pete Green's Fleetwood Mac and Cream. Jimi Hendrix played amplified blues ... Yeah, what Banno said 3X!
The question isn't "Which explanations do I believe?" but rather "Which explanations do I least disbelieve?" Absence of evidence THAT MUST BE THERE (i.e. implied by any claim, concept, or (its) predicates, that affects changes in/to the world) entails evidence of absence. [What cannot be done?[What cannot be hoped?[What cannot be known?]]]

Tobias
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Posted 01/25/09 - 10:55 AM:	#24
In heavy metal, I believe two traditions are frequently mentioned. The mold that Led Zep. cast and the Black Sabbath style. Led Zep. Now Zeppelin clearly has blues influences and Black Sabbath has too. They were a blues band before starting to play a harsher variant which became known as metal or became labelled as such. So metal arose out of blues. Yet, at some point the audiences diversed. Metal heads have different signs, different ways of speaking, a different discourse than blues afficinados. What puzzles me about metal is two fold. One is that metal became a working class mode of expression at least in the UK, but the lyrics of for instance Iron Maiden are quite often inspired by works of literature. The imagery always seemed to me more for 'nerds' than for construction workers to put things very crudely and one sidedly. The second movement that puzzles me is why it became popular. Gothic has affinity with metal and the more romantic side of metal has taken over. This is a side close to for instance the Lord of the Rings. It is German in spirit, romantic, weltschmerz and over the top. Blues for instance can be over the top, but it never had the theatrics of metal. Metal as it is popular now pulp romantic, pseudo Goethe. It does well with the romantic outsider. But that is the puzzle for me. How come music for the romatic outsider became more or less mainstream? Does the romantic outsider revive? Does the future belong to the ecologically minded nerd? And what does the music tell about that person? Because it is the romantic form, but teh genre still flirts with Satanism, war and the like. So an essentially gentle creature may come to power, a pseudo Goethe, interested in sex and evil, but not being evil and not having much sex (I fear, I can't be sure). It is an odd genre because there is such a discrepance between its content and the people that listen to it.
"The Power of Kant compels you" "The Power of Kant compels you" "The Power of Kant compels you"

Banno
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Posted 01/26/09 - 12:46 PM:	#25
Interesting. I would have said HM was nerdish rather than working class. Music for teenagers on the autism spectrum, who want to understand social relations in simple terms. Good and evil provide a simple one-dimensional morality they can cope with. There are no moral complexities for hobbits. The rise of romanticism is an interesting problem; again, it is perhaps a search for simplified social interaction.
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

Cuthbert
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Posted 01/27/09 - 01:33 AM:	#26
Tobias wrote: How come music for the romantic outsider became more or less mainstream? Does the romantic outsider revive? It's a good story that we can't get enough of. A genius starves in his garret creating great music, painting, poetry, etc. His art is ignored or reviled by all except a few close friends who recognise that he is ahead of his time. By an accident of fate his work comes to public attention and grips the imagination of the world. The critics are forced to eat their words. This sometimes happens after he has died tragically and cannot benefit from fame and success. Inferior imitators create a school around his style, which gradually ossifies and becomes canonical. Meanwhile, outside the canon, a genius starves in his garret creating great art.... Rinse and repeat, from Shelley to Cobain and beyond.

Conservationist
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Posted 10/04/09 - 06:17 PM:	#27
Tobias wrote: It is an outdated theory, maybe, but according to Hegel art captures the idea in the form of the intuition. It reflects the spirit, but not in comprehension, but in an immediate form, not yet reflected. Lets take this as a starting point to reflect on heavy metal. It is an odd musical genre. It is associated with glorifying violence and even satanism. But what is it that heavy metal reflects? What spirit in our age does it capture? In my view, it doesn't: it captures the spirit of an earlier age that is also eternal. This spirit, known as Romanticism, glorifies nature over social norms. If people are OK with that idea, we can discuss it further. I recommend the heavy metal FAQ as a resource.
S. Harris, Librarian Center for Nihilism and Nihilist Studies / Corrupt (918) 496-0700

Z. Thustra
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Posted 10/04/09 - 08:32 PM:	#28
i dont agree with Hegel's appraisal of art (or his appraisals of anything really) so i approach this question a bit differently. That being said, i think heavy metal obviously reflects and aims to licit a more aggressive and primal state of mind. Im thinking of the really heavy metal screaming type of music, theres a lot that falls everywhere in between. the extreme types of heavy metal and those who identify with it think man is a demonic, violent beast apparently.
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psychotick
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Posted 10/10/09 - 03:50 AM:	#29
Hi, Personally I'm a more middle of the road rocker, and I've loved everything from ABBA to the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac to AC DC, Alan Parsons to Def Leopard. For me its about having a tune you can hear, a beat you can thump your arms to and some lyrics you can sing your heart out to, (where no one else can hear you of course!). Wher I lose a liking for metal is when these things become subserviant to the noise and the screaming. For that reason I truly loathed Nirvana and Oasis (don't all shout at me at once). As for you fantasist and escapist belief, maybe I can ascribe to that to an extent, but I don't think its anything particularly peculiar to metal. I'm sure most teeny boppers listening to Miley Cirus, the Jonas Brothers or Taylor Swift have exactly the same feelings. And now that we have the new Emo groups like Green Day and Fall Out Boy wearing lots of mascarra and other make up, maybe the thetricality of Kiss and Ailce Cooper are being seen all over again. As for counter culture, I don't think I can truly sign up to that theory at all. If you want rebellious music, (music being in my opinion a loose term for it), turn to punk. As for Satanism, personally I'd take AC DC's Highway to Hell and the rest as being the high road compared to most rap where women are degraded to the status of 'Ho's' and men are gangsters. I've never heard of a single heavey metaler shooting another, or even carrying guns. Good metal is just good fun. Cheers.

easyjacksn
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Posted 10/10/09 - 10:34 AM:	#30
I think a cultural divide is in process regarding metal right now. The European metal scene is moving more towards what you are describing, Tobias, but the American scene is becoming increasingly brutal and technical. Progressive tech death metal is where it's at, right now. Bands like these are rapidly gaining popularity: http://www.myspace.com/thefaceless http://www.myspace.com/bornofosiris Also, fusion is making it's way into metal. It is not uncommon to find jazz and funk elements being introduced into the music: http://www.myspace.com/betweentheburiedandme I think it's a great time for metal. It is maturing at a phenomenal rate right now. The best the genre has to offer is drawing from all sources. The Thrash derivatives like Death metal and Black metal are combining with the old school progressive stuff like Dream Theater and King Crimson and the technical complexity is now only topped by classical music. It is by far the most innovative current area of music, similar to what Progressive rock did in the 70's. I'm enjoying all of it.

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