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True statements

Banno
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Posted 04/14/09 - 06:57 PM: Subject: True statements	#1
The discussion of hands, and of certainty, on related threads has led me to ponder again the nature of truth. What is it for a statement to be true?
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

NothingtoSay
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Posted 04/14/09 - 07:14 PM:	#2
What is truth? And what is the difference among certainty, truth, and knowledge?

J. Random Hacker
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Posted 04/14/09 - 07:21 PM:	#3
A statement is true when it corresponds to a fact or is true by definition.

NothingtoSay
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Posted 04/14/09 - 07:27 PM:	#4
J. Random Hacker wrote: A statement is true when it corresponds to a fact or is true by definition. So the statement, "Men breath" is true? But what if a man holds his breath, will that statement still be true given the fact that the man isn't breathing at a specific period of time?

Banno
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Posted 04/14/09 - 07:28 PM:	#5
NothingtoSay wrote: What is truth? Indeed, that is what I am asking... And what is the difference among certainty, truth, and knowledge? Well, knowledge has been general recognised as justified true belief for quite a while. Truth seems to be a way of describing some statements, but not others. Certainty is lack of doubt, but one should take care to make clear whether the lack of doubt relates to the belief in a statement or to the truth of a statement.
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

ying
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Posted 04/14/09 - 07:36 PM:	#6
Banno wrote: a statement is true if it corresponds to the facts a statement is true if it coheres with other true statements Circular claims. asserting a statement is the same as saying it is true; it's a type of performance a statement is true if it is useful To whom? a statement is true if most folk say it is true Argumentum ad populum. A statement is true if it's analytic. The rest is conjecture, a mere approximation to 100% verisimilitude. There are, however, some basical experiential points which might be regarded as "true": I perceive (My senses tell me that there is something), I think (which might be expanded to experiencing and acting in a mental "realm", which isn't an ontological claim but a heuristical term) and I have a body (to which I'm internally linked. Feeling my heart pound when I'm anxious isn't a part of my sensory apparatus). Edited by ying on 04/14/09 - 07:44 PM
*"I determined nothing."* -Sceptical expression

J. Random Hacker
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Posted 04/14/09 - 07:36 PM:	#7
NothingtoSay wrote: So the statement, "Men breath" is true? But what if a man holds his breath, will that statement still be true given the fact that the man isn't breathing at a specific period of time? Saying "men breathe" is saying that men breathe periodically which is true based on the fact that men have existed and have drawn multiple breaths during their existences.

NothingtoSay
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Posted 04/14/09 - 07:38 PM:	#8
Banno wrote: Indeed, that is what I am asking... Well, knowledge has been general recognised as justified true belief for quite a while. Truth seems to be a way of describing some statements, but not others. Certainty is lack of doubt, but one should take care to make clear whether the lack of doubt relates to the belief in a statement or to the truth of a statement. You asked what it took for a statement to be true. If you meant 'What is truth?' by that question, then I apologize for repeating you. So does this mean that truth plays a role in knowledge? Any examples of what knowledge is?

NothingtoSay
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Posted 04/14/09 - 07:44 PM:	#9
J. Random Hacker wrote: Saying "men breathe" is saying that men breathe periodically which is true based on the fact that men have existed and have drawn multiple breaths during their existences. And the fact that they sometimes stop breathing doesn't break that truth? It would just add to that truth: they breath AND they hold their breaths. Do you agree? But what breaks a truth? Should I have said "Men only breath and never stop breathing"? Would the fact that men sometimes hold their breaths have broken that truth?

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Posted 04/14/09 - 07:58 PM:	#10
NothingtoSay wrote: And the fact that they sometimes stop breathing doesn't break that truth? It would just add to that truth: they breath AND they hold their breaths. Do you agree? I agree. NothingtoSay wrote: But what breaks a truth? Should I have said "Men only breath and never stop breathing"? Would the fact that men sometimes hold their breaths have broken that truth? It depends on what you mean by "stop breathing". If you take it to mean that the person in question will never breath again then holding your breath wouldn't matter, as long as you breathe again. Of course, in principle, it's hard to tell when someone will "never" do something again since we can't verify predictions over infinite periods of time. We can't ever establish certainty, only probability.

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