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unenlightened
modern poster  Usergroup: Administrators Joined: Aug 10, 2007 Location: Wales Total Topics: 42 Total Posts: 4515 |
 #541
oag wrote: my point has been to make the distinction that all truth is subjective You are not actually making a distinction. If all truth is subjective, then it is not distinguished from anything we can know about. We might as well struggle on without the dichotomy - or say that all truth is a goat. Or are you saying something objectively true here?  ...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys |
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Banno
the One-Line Wonder!  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Aug 15, 2004 Location: Oz Total Topics: 166 Total Posts: 9202 |
#542
unenlightened wrote: We might as well struggle on without the dichotomy - or say that all truth is a goat. For truth to be a goat, it would have to be a thing. Is it? An apostrophe does not mean "Look out, here comes an s!" |
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unenlightened
modern poster Usergroup: Administrators Joined: Aug 10, 2007 Location: Wales Total Topics: 42 Total Posts: 4515 |
#543
I don't know. What is a thing (apart from being a goat, of course)? ...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys |
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Cheshire
Aspect  Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 12, 2009 Total Topics: 17 Total Posts: 762 |
#544
Just a thought. 1.Supposing for a moment even our most obvious facts are not beyond doubt. And 2.Supposing that our obvious facts are indeed truth and considered certain. The logical process of testing ideas does not depend on either reality. In order to study an element of knowledge you must try to isolate it. In doing so you must assume elements not being tested are true for the sake of focus. Trying to question everything at once, even if it is justified,becomes impossible without any steady reference. Lastly, it would be irrational to spend time and resources questioning the most apparent truths. Regardless the degree or illusion of subjectivity, I'm not going to waste time determining every stone is a stone. It's simply not practical. Or not. |
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Banno
the One-Line Wonder! Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Aug 15, 2004 Location: Oz Total Topics: 166 Total Posts: 9202 |
#545
unenlightened wrote: I don't know. What is a thing (apart from being a goat, of course)? Quine might answer that to be is to be the butt of a predicate. Edited by Banno on Jul 21, 2009 - 3:06 PM An apostrophe does not mean "Look out, here comes an s!" |
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oag
banned  Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 13, 2009 Total Topics: 2 Total Posts: 555 |
#546
unenlightened wrote: I am making the distinction from the allegation that some truth is objective. In discussing the nature of truth there are only those two possibilities to consider. Since to know THE absolute truth would require absolute knowledge of the universe we can never have that. This leaves only subjective truth. Having established that then one can properly dissect why and how we see truth, how we present it, what it all means, etc. As long as someone is locked into the false impression that the term truth can be used to represent objective facts/states of affairs then one is operating in fantasy mode and their POV is of no use.You are not actually making a distinction. If all truth is subjective, then it is not distinguished from anything we can know about. We might as well struggle on without the dichotomy - or say that all truth is a goat. Or are you saying something objectively true here? |
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Banno
the One-Line Wonder! Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Aug 15, 2004 Location: Oz Total Topics: 166 Total Posts: 9202 |
#547
oag wrote: IIn discussing the nature of truth there are only those two possibilities to consider. Why? You haven't given a reason for us to be committed to the subjective-objective dilemma. and if there are only subjective, private truths, you still face the problem Unenlightened points to. An apostrophe does not mean "Look out, here comes an s!" |
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oag
banned Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 13, 2009 Total Topics: 2 Total Posts: 555 |
#548
Banno wrote: I have given you reason, many, many times...most recently in post #546. You don't care to hear it. That will remain the problem with truth. I am not the first nor the last to face it.Why? You haven't given a reason for us to be committed to the subjective-objective dilemma. and if there are only subjective, private truths, you still face the problem Unenlightened points to. |
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unenlightened
modern poster Usergroup: Administrators Joined: Aug 10, 2007 Location: Wales Total Topics: 42 Total Posts: 4515 |
#549
oag wrote: As long as someone is locked into the false impression that the term truth can be used to represent objective facts/states of affairs then one is operating in fantasy mode and their POV is of no use. That may well be your point of view, but it is of no use.  If talking about the world is a fantasy, then what, pray, is not a fantasy? Your absolutism simply deprives the words of any meaning. In other words, I'm afraid you are talking nonsense. ...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys |
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Cheshire
Aspect Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 12, 2009 Total Topics: 17 Total Posts: 762 |
#550
Oag, Is the statement "All truths are subjective" an objective truth about truth? Or not. |
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