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Trapped by society

justanotheruser
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Posted 07/29/04 - 02:09 PM:	#1
(rookie alert) Lately, I have been thinking about how much surrounding society is influencing me and my thoughts on different things. I consider myself as something inbetween an atheist or agnostic, but I dont know how much this is because I find this the most appealing or if it is because I am influenced by the society/media around me. Many young people where I live consider themselves atheist/agnostic, and it is becoming a more and more accepted point of view as a contrast to religious devotion. Though I have not done much voting and political investigation as I am only 19, I am so far drawn to left side political ideologies, somewhat bordering on what some would call the extreme left. While I may be fooling myself by thinking that this is based on my reasoning, I can just look around and see: I am of middle class, my mother has many of the same thoughts, and I live in a country (Norway) where leftist ideology stands rather strong. So again I am wondering how much all this is affecting my point of view. I am sure that if i was born in some middle-east country, or in Europe middle ages, there is a fair chance I could be a devoted believer in some religion or other. I personally find these frightening thoughts. Would I have many of the same standpoints if I was brought up another place then now? If it was common in that place to have totally different views, would I break out, or would I follow the stream? Hope to hear some comments/views on this

mogadishu
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Posted 07/29/04 - 02:22 PM:	#2
Yea, I believe that certain things we are born with, but most of our personality, views, ideologies come from the world around us. There is a reason why people in the South (US) are more conservative than the north (me). It isn't as if we are two different species and are born like this. As to your question about would you still have the same views if you were born in a different place/time, the answer is no. You may coincidently be one of the few that is able to overcome society, but you wouldn't be liberal for the same reasons you are now.
I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass . . . and I'm all out of bubble gum - They Live

NSX
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Posted 07/29/04 - 04:41 PM:	#3
What you describe reminds me of "Nature vs. Nuture" It's hard to say. One can't use deductive reasoning to find a trend, only speculate. I don't have much of a viewpoint on your thoughts...what you describe is what many teenagers [in North America at least] go through themselves [if not agnostic, then questioning their own faith, way of life, etc.]. My comment would be to learn & experience as much as you can.

Justus
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Posted 07/29/04 - 04:50 PM:	#4
I hold the belief that we are slaves to our environment. Despite your detachment from society, you will always be influenced by it.
"The present existing intellectuals have declared their own bankruptcy by abandoning the intellect. What we need today out of an intellectual would be any man or woman who is willing to think. Meaning, any man or woman who knows that man's life must be guided by reason, by the intellect, and not by feelings, wishes, whims or mystical relations." -Ayn Rand

rabeldin
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Posted 07/29/04 - 05:19 PM:	#5
Justus wrote: I hold the belief that we are slaves to our environment. Despite your detachment from society, you will always be influenced by it. Influence is not control. As John Donne said, "No man is an island". You can't escape the influence of society, but you can choose your own way within the limits of what the society allows or you can choose to break new ground and live with the (weak) penalties society can impose. Of course, if what you want to do is violently opposed by the members of society, you will have an uphill battle. Mostly, other people will ignore you unless you get in their way.
Leave no assumption unquestioned.

NSX
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Posted 07/29/04 - 07:02 PM:	#6
heh Your signature relates to this thread, eh rabeldin? As for Justus, we're not really slaves to our environment. Slaves do not have the liberty of choice, but within our environment, we can choose [like rabeldin said]. Consider another scenario. Imagine a utopia for yourself. Would that be so much better?

Justus
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Posted 07/30/04 - 12:11 AM:	#7
rabeldin wrote: Influence is not control. As John Donne said, "No man is an island". You can't escape the influence of society, but you can choose your own way within the limits of what the society allows or you can choose to break new ground and live with the (weak) penalties society can impose. Of course, if what you want to do is violently opposed by the members of society, you will have an uphill battle. Mostly, other people will ignore you unless you get in their way. Consider that you are indeed a slave to society because society will impose its beliefs on you. You may survive by avoiding interaction with society or you make your own rebellions against the society but all in all, you have very little freedom. Just consider what has happened to every persecuted minority in the history of societies.
"The present existing intellectuals have declared their own bankruptcy by abandoning the intellect. What we need today out of an intellectual would be any man or woman who is willing to think. Meaning, any man or woman who knows that man's life must be guided by reason, by the intellect, and not by feelings, wishes, whims or mystical relations." -Ayn Rand

justanotheruser
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Posted 07/30/04 - 01:14 AM:	#8
I think there is several aspects to how society influence me. One of them is what people around me thinks, and another is what information there is avalible. Im wondering how much influence there is from people/media around me, and what beliefs I got because of independet information, lets say like books from all kinds of other old and modern societies with totally different outlooks on things from my own society. edit - NSX - is ur avatar from the game "Dynablast?"

NSX
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Posted 07/30/04 - 07:21 PM:	#9
justanotheruser: I haven't played Dynablast before, so I don't know. I got my avatar from here: http://www.newdream.net/sb4/

chaos_maximus
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Posted 07/30/04 - 09:20 PM:	#10
i totally agree with NSX that this is based on "Nature vs. Nurture". of course you are heavily influenced by society as well as yourself... the genetic material that has created you and the like. what this really leads to is a discussion about free will, i.e. whether you really have the ability to make your own choices or if everything is pre-determined. it's a scary thought.. that you don't really have the choice between being a beet farmer in malaysia of lesser IQ, who will end up dying at a young age, or being a handsome, smart rich man who has the ability to make good choices. the thing is... everything has a consequence, one thing leads to another thing, etc etc. what changes you may make you change something else, whcih, in turn, changes you again. a discussion such as the existence of true free will has no value, as it will not change the way anything works. the only thing anyone can ever do is make the best decisions they can. be open to new ideas, and yet don't hesitate to judge fairly. you are who you are, and whether you believe in reincarnation or you don't, you shouldn't spend too much time questioning "why" to things you cant change.

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