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Time through the perspective of a musician

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Time through the perspective of a musician

kenichi
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Posted 10/22/04 - 01:44 PM:	#1
Moderators, I wasn't sure where to put this. You may want to move it. I need the opinion of other musicians as well as those of a scientific/psych field of study. To warm up, I like to jam (on the guitar that is) along to some John Petrucci and Michael Romeo. Those familiar with their music know how fast it is. Generally it is a struggle to keep up. I've noticed though that sometimes the music seems slower than other times. Obviously my stereo doesn't come with a ritardando option, the pace alteration is only a matter of perception. Yet this perception is so clear. It is not a case of me getting better because I also have days where the music is simply to fast for me. What might cause such a percieved pace alteration?
And we are here as on a darkling plain Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, Where ignorant armies clash by night

Morrandir
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Posted 10/22/04 - 01:59 PM:	#2
Let it stay. Keep the discussion scientific, okay? Interesting question and touches some of my own musings about music, but I will refrain from now. I am no musician, nor am I a scientist. ~Morrandir~ EDIT: Moved to Anthro etc, because the thread not catch wind in the science forum.
Philosophy is disciplined bewilderment. A mathematician is a person who thinks that if there are supposed to be three people in a room, but five come out, then two more must enter the room in order for it to be empty. http://www.beyondappearances.com

Membrain
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Posted 10/22/04 - 02:22 PM:	#3
kenichi wrote: ...the pace alteration is only a matter of perception. Yet this perception is so clear. It is not a case of me getting better because I also have days where the music is simply to fast for me. What might cause such a percieved pace alteration? It seems like you know it's you. It's your own "clock" speeding up and slowing down. When your "clock" is going fast, the music seems slower and visa versa.

kenichi
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Posted 10/22/04 - 02:52 PM:	#4
Could you elaborate on my clock?
And we are here as on a darkling plain Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, Where ignorant armies clash by night

Gramm
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Posted 10/22/04 - 03:56 PM:	#5
I wrote my thesis on this phenomena (1989) and on the way that "attending" to this "perceptual shift" could possibly be implemented as a learning tool. While yours is an Autic response, (my thesis was focussed mostly on the visual aspects) they both fall under the same umbrella of what I described as percepetual shift-changes. Without going into great detail here, (It was a 150 page research thesis) the basic apsects involve becoming aware of ones own time/space perception of phenomena being somewhat altered. This being connected intimately to a sense of having "dropped catergorical filters" of experience. In other words you "attend" to the sound in a manner that is not pre-concieved or pre-judged (as opposed to previous cognitive mappings of that phenomena) with the net result that you become acutely "aware" of its presentness and vividness. It's like suddenly seeing flashes of colour on the back of a pigeon that you have never noticed before, and even though you have looked a pigeons a thousand times before ( building up a cognitive map) its as if your brain suddenly 'drops' all such pre-conditioned filters and you go from mere looking to actual "seeing" the colours for the very first time. Of the 50 or so people I interviewed for my work, most were artists, some musicians and a few were writers. In a very large number of cases, they all commented on the peculiar aspect of "time" being somehow altered, shifted or changed. Naturally, this is purely "subjective" on their part, but neverthless, the fact that they all independantly spoke of similar time altered experiences, was of great potential interest (and use) to me.
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Membrain
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Posted 10/23/04 - 04:31 AM:	#6
kenichi wrote: Could you elaborate on my clock? It's the difference between caffeine and alcohol. Take caffeine and your body-clock goes faster. Music will seem to drag. Take alcohol and your body-clock goes slower. Music might seem to be quick. These are drug-induced examples. One's own body-clock cycles through chemical changes which might result in changes in perecption. Or to use a computer anology: the clock-speed of your CPU changes over time.

kenichi
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Posted 10/23/04 - 02:07 PM:	#7
Thanks Membrain and Gramm, but is it normal that my own motor skills should appear to operate at their normal speed? Shouldn't they appear slower as well?
And we are here as on a darkling plain Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, Where ignorant armies clash by night

Membrain
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Posted 10/23/04 - 02:41 PM:	#8
kenichi wrote: Thanks Membrain and Gramm, but is it normal that my own motor skills should appear to operate at their normal speed? Shouldn't they appear slower as well? You're not saying that your motor skills operate at their normal speed after 10 beers or 5 cups of coffee? Don't they appear slower or faster?

zvoi
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Posted 10/23/04 - 06:06 PM:	#9
I think when you are more relaxed, you are able to focus more intently ( sometimes without knowing it) and this gives you the perception of time going slower. I experience the same thing when playing the piano, when daydreaming I can often play sections which I normally stuff up.

Percipere'Chan
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Posted 10/23/04 - 07:28 PM:	#10
zvoi wrote: I think when you are more relaxed, you are able to focus more intently ( sometimes without knowing it) and this gives you the perception of time going slower. I experience the same thing when playing the piano, when daydreaming I can often play sections which I normally stuff up. I can't add much to the main topic at hand, but the facet of concentration does seem like it could have a significant affect on the perception of time. I don't know if it's just one way though. I've had times of intense concentration working with something challenging concerning computers or design (while listening to good music) where I'll look up be very surprised that it's already dark outside.
Is it Spring yet?

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