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Time - not flowing but becoming
the present moment as point of creation, where all matter inherits its existence

Time - not flowing but becoming

yogu
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Posted 10/16/09 - 08:54 AM: Subject: Time - not flowing but becoming	#1
Time is a nebulous subject, so I'll try to identify what I mean by Time. Not the calendar, not the measurement of time. Not time dilation, the locality of time. ...but that time 'passes,' or seems to pass. I think a better word is 'becoming,' because things are constantly changing, and I think of time as the enabler or matrix in which change can occur. Take the analogy of the flame on a candle. The flame is constantly created anew, and yet it can also be thought of as a constant flame - the present moment. I guess I'm taking issue with the idea of block space-time which seems to imply that no point past, present or future is more 'existent' than the next. I'd say the present moment is like the point of creation - the movie projector to our reality on the screen - that is, all matter is constantly 'becoming.' Sure, at one time, the present was the early universe, and at one time the Earth took shape. We can infer what the past was like by looking at the rock record and the stars at night, but do past moments objectively exist somewhere in the annals of space-time? I'd say no. It's all new, now. Sure, we have our roots of physical existence in the past - stars exploding, life evolving - but there's no escaping the present moment. So my question is: Is this preeminence of the present moment only a condition of us living beings and our 'temporal existence,' or is all matter in the universe involved in this huge process of becoming, as if flung outwards by the Big Bang? Is it true that all matter is constantly in a state of flux? Are we all riding the wave of creation - the present moment? I hope this isn't too obtuse.

wuliheron
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Posted 10/16/09 - 07:35 PM:	#2
This is the philosophy of science bulletin board, not metaphysics. Can you frame your question scientifically?

yogu
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Posted 10/17/09 - 06:23 AM:	#3
Does the present moment have some kind of preeminence over past and future events? Not the present moment that is cataloged further and further in the past as the day goes on, but the continual present, kind of like the continual flame in my above non-scientific analogy. (what is a thought experiment, anyway?) My understanding of relativity block-time is that no point in time is favored over another. My viewpoint is that the continual present, Stanford Encyclopedia also refers to it as "becoming," is the engine of change and dynamism in the universe. I just wanted to get a discussion on theories of time going, anyone?

wuliheron
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Posted 10/17/09 - 11:48 PM:	#4
Neither Relativity nor QM places any kind of special emphasis on the present. For the most part physics emphasises symmetry and many physicists believe that time can flow backwards as well as forward, which is something some theories in QM support. In other words, widely accepted physical theories tend to be very egalitarian. However, you might be interested in John Wheeler's "Participatory Anthropic Principle" and in Sochastic theories of QM.

nousPLOTINU
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Posted 10/18/09 - 07:43 AM:	#5
If you place time emperically you find it adjacent to existence as a phenomenological companion to human nature. The participatory premise is based on an action that is non-delayable and tresholds at interaction. Interaction is the now moment, Following a wave of action with intemediate measurements evokes the interaction precept, Question: Within a group of interactions where is the present:?
It is not that I think I know, it is that I know when I think.

Cadrache
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Posted 10/19/09 - 06:22 PM:	#6
At least from our basics for physics - "passes" is a better term. Just like we pass distance we pass time. We don't become a new distance. (excempting relativity of course.)
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Kwalish Kid
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Posted 10/19/09 - 06:50 PM:	#7
Perhaps you would be interested in Wayne Myrvold's "Relativistic Quantum Becoming" Links to versions of the paper are here: http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?c...=5400474145593896124&hl=en
"Scientific truth is always paradox, if judged by everyday experience, which catches only the delusive nature of things." - KM, V, P and P Can you pass Religion 101?

Cadrache
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Posted 10/19/09 - 07:09 PM:	#8
I don't think I ever heard of him.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Kwalish Kid
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Posted 10/19/09 - 07:27 PM:	#9
Sorry, Cadrache, I should have addressed that last post to yogu. Myrvold is one of the top philosophers of QM in North America. He was visiting in Oxford for a while, but I think he's back now.
"Scientific truth is always paradox, if judged by everyday experience, which catches only the delusive nature of things." - KM, V, P and P Can you pass Religion 101?

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