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Thought construction in the Absence of Words

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Thought construction in the Absence of Words

Gramm
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Posted 02/12/04 - 03:54 AM:	#1
Our minds are so intrinsically linked to words that we can barely think without constructing linguistic "frameworks" around our thoughts and concepts. Yet at the same time, higher mammals show all the signs of thinking but without the use of an equivilant complex externally vocalised language. Admitedly, such animals don't appear ( at least on the face of it ) to construct complex and abstract ideas. But even so, there is no question that they do think. So my question is simply. In the absence of language how do such animals "think" ? Gramm
Light is not diminished by being shared. Desiderata

Nihilistic Locomotive
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Posted 02/12/04 - 12:33 PM:	#2
Images and associations. One doesn't think with words. I don't think with words. Does that make me an animal? I've a specific sentiment or an intuition, sometimes a wonderful picture or process in my mind that I've to put through the meat grinder of conventional linguistics. Or, now, in most cases I'm dictated to by an inner critic.
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Libra
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Posted 02/12/04 - 12:47 PM:	#3
I have seen a programme on the telly where animals use ultrasound to communicate inter species.
Elves: There he is, the whore Prince of Mirkwood! Elrond: He's not a whore, just very affectionate! Legolas: Whore Prince? How dare you? Aragorn: Hey Legolas, get your hands of MY man! Legolas: I saw him first! Elrond: Hey I am not a man! I am an Elf! Elves: Get him Aragorn!

sensabile
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Posted 02/12/04 - 02:44 PM:	#4
It's quite simple really. Complex humans like ourselves can think in different ways about different things. Individuals usually have a special way in which they think most of the time such as thinking in images, as Nihilistic Locomotive pointed out. Some humans think mostly in terms of images, some in words, some in sounds and the very best "learners" think in all of these ways. Most land mammals would think in terms of images and most oceanic creatures would think in terms of sound. Humans usually think in terms of words because we usually want to present our ideas and communicate and because we communicate primarily through words we therefore think in words. Our ability to think with words is why we have become so intelligent in my opinion. This is because words can be much more easily associated to one another based on their meanings. This allows numerous complexities, both structure and in meaning, when we communicate which therefore allows one individual to share more easily his "visions" and also to receive other individuals "visions". A vision shared has twice as much potential as a vision kept to yourself.
For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

sui-generis
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Posted 02/12/04 - 09:09 PM:	#5
Words can be also limiting. It seems that what we can't define, we often can't understand as well. Perhaps animals think in terms of emotions.
~Be faithful to that which exists within yourself~André Gide

Liberepublicat
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Posted 02/12/04 - 09:33 PM:	#6
Contrary to the present-day linguistic "Pop Philosophy," language is not a necessary condition for cognition. Linguists, everywhere, get your guns! It has been proven experimentally quite enough to shut the question down. Shut the f**K up, so to speak.

Gramm
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Posted 02/12/04 - 10:53 PM:	#7
Shut the fK up, so to speak.**[ So Liberepublicat, maybe you can find an intuitive way to say this without the use of language...
Light is not diminished by being shared. Desiderata

Liberepublicat
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Posted 02/12/04 - 10:58 PM:	#8
Grammaticus wrote: Shut the fK up, so to speak.**[ So Liberepublicat, maybe you can find an intuitive way to say this without the use of language... ...

Liberepublicat
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Posted 02/12/04 - 11:05 PM:	#9
That reminds me. There are only 3 ways of living that I have ever found: 1. React to the external world and change it via problem-solving. 2. Adapt to the external world and shut up. 3. Run away from the external world. If you know of any others let me know.

sensabile
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Posted 02/13/04 - 01:30 AM:	#10
Liberepublicat wrote: Contrary to the present-day linguistic "Pop Philosophy," language is not a necessary condition for cognition. Linguists, everywhere, get your guns! It has been proven experimentally quite enough to shut the question down. Shut the f**K up, so to speak. What is this magical experiment you talk of? Although I don't disagree with you, words are not always necessary, I would be interested in the validity of a study that claims to prove that linguistics is not neccessary for cognition. Linguistics is highly important in cognition because it is how we will eventually communicate.
For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

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