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"The woman question"
I got a more direct responce.

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"The woman question"

180 Proof
cult deprogrammer

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Posted 01/19/06 - 10:37 AM:	#41
love, like hunger or fear, is not voluntary; the use/misuse of love, however, is voluntary. in other words, we cannot choose who what or when we love. we can only choose, once we're in love, how we deal with the details or boundaries of our loving. 'love of a woman' might be a necessary condition to understanding her but love alone (or primarily) does not suffice; a man must understand himself as a man in order to see her as she is rather than as he is. i suspect this is why only older men really appreciate young women ... Edited by 180 Proof on 01/19/06 - 02:12 PM. Reason: NA
if X = -X, then -X. "existence" entails specifiable conditions (e.g. evidence, sound argument, search parameters, etc.) void, or perfect symmetry (i.e. no where/when/thing), necessarily is perfectly unstable. THAT there is something at all (i.e. broken symmetry e.g. quantum fluctuations) is "random"; however, WHAT that something becomes (e.g. universes) is not.

Mariner
Longing

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Posted 01/19/06 - 10:49 AM:	#42
180 Proof wrote: love, like hunger or fear, is not voluntary; the use/misuse of love, however, is voluntary. in other words, we cannot choose who what or when we love. I can. And I think everyone can, too. Thank God . we can only choose, once we're in love, how we deal with the details or boundaries of our loving. 'love of a woman' might be a necessary condition to understanding her but love alone (or primarily) does not suffice; a man must understand himself as a man in order to see her as she is rather than as he is. i suspect this is why only older men really appreciate young women ... I agree with this, very much. I think that "to understand yourself", whether you are a man or a woman, is a prerequisite for love. Without this, all that can be had is passion (not that passion is a bad thing, but it must grow into love or grow stale-- at best). To see -- and love -- the beloved as she is, and as you are, rather as how you'd like her to be (or as how you'd like yourself to be in relation to her...), is no easy task.
"In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't." -- Blaise Pascal "The more I am by myself and alone, the more I have come to love myths" -- Aristotle in his later years

Petunia
silent muse

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Posted 01/19/06 - 11:46 AM:	#43
180 Proof wrote: love, like hunger or fear, is not voluntary; the use/misuse of love, however, is voluntary. in other words, we cannot choose who what or when we love. Mariner wrote: I can. And I think everyone can, too. Thank God . Our initial emotional responses are like physical responses. We can't always choose how situations affect us emotionally, but this is different than love. Emotional attachment and love are not synonymous. Love is not an emotion, it is an all encompassing quality that includes, but is not limited to, emotion. Its foundation is stronger and more pure than any emotion. Love is a desire to contribute to the well being of another, attachment is desire to have ones needs met. These can be intertwined, and usually are, but the distinction is important.
Peer over the precipice

Tobias
Metaphysical exorcist

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Posted 01/19/06 - 01:11 PM:	#44
Petuna When someone is mistreated, it often leaves the person with a lack of closure. They long to correct this problem and may look for another person with the same problem in hopes of correcting it this time. It seems unbearable to face the possiblity that pain is the only outcome and there was no meaning, no resolution. A person who bullies someone, usually rewards them as well. If you create both an emotional need and fill it, the person can become emotionally addicted to you. They stay by such a person for the times their needs are filled. They can come to feel they deserve the punishment. They feel that losing the person is to lose everything and be left empty and alone without a crumb of fulfillment. For my thesis on stalking I read a book on abuse of women by men. Stories fro real life were related complete with daily situations methods etc. Made me sick to the stomack and cry one afternoon too. I agree with what you and 180 have been saying. One theory opined in that book was that women who have been battered loose all control and are subjected to a force they can't be equal to. Leadig to an unbearable lack of power. To bear this feeling of utter lack of power women tend to make up mechanisms that seem to grant them a measure of control, for instance 'if I will cook the food he likes, he will not go after me this evening'. There can be many other such accomodating behaviours that are implemented as a kind of surrogate for control. The viciousness lies in the fact that women start blaming themselves after an outburst of physical violence because they could not prevent it through this or that accomodation strategy. More and more the women in question are cornered and more and more they start blaming themselves eventually thinking they deserve the punishment because they are simply 'no good'. Wife battery was found by here study to be present equally in all layers of society. The book was R. Römkens..... ehh, I can look it up if you are interested, but it is in Dutch. 180 a man must understand himself as a man in order to see her as she is rather than as he is. i suspect this is why only older men really appreciate young women ... Though I can't claim to 'really' appreciate young women, or understand myself as a man. I will never tire of selling Hegel of to 180 though. regards lovers Tobi
"The Power of Kant compels you" "The Power of Kant compels you" "The Power of Kant compels you"

Chops
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Posted 01/19/06 - 03:17 PM:	#45
Petunia wrote: Our initial emotional responses are like physical responses. We can't always choose how situations affect us emotionally, but this is different than love. Emotional attachment and love are not synonymous. Love is not an emotion, it is an all encompassing quality that includes, but is not limited to, emotion. Its foundation is stronger and more pure than any emotion. Love is a desire to contribute to the well being of another, attachment is desire to have ones needs met. These can be intertwined, and usually are, but the distinction is important. Very well put. Edited by Mariner on 01/20/06 - 07:36 AM. Reason: fixing quote tag + agreeing :D

Gaia_Guerrilla
.

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Posted 01/21/06 - 01:23 PM:	#46
(a, Petunia): "While physical abuse is commonly male directed towards female, I have also seen too many cases of emotional abuse from women towards men."(/a) Sorry, Petunia, but I've heard this type of phrase many times and it bothers me a great deal. Maybe part of the reason is because I've heard it from women that wouldn't get themselves out of violent situations when all sorts of family members were tugging for them to. Battered women don't simply fall into abuse by thinking of themselves as worthless and fearful (that's surely a contributor), they also fall into it by thinking they're strong and capable of handling it when they're not. It makes me wonder if sometimes using a "feminist" slant of handling it is a poor excuse for staying a victim. People say that they were punched, but they were also victimizers because of emotional manipulation, and I think that's overanalyzing a simple situation. They'll talk about how they provoked it, or the legal problems leading to it. X punched Y. I don't give a shit what kind of dynamic gets painted in between. I know the direction of abuse there. To me: The only excuse to physical assault is physical self-defense against a perceived immediate physical threat. "He punched me, but I deserved it because I kept slapping him" is not an immediate physical threat. Call me sexist. I know our world contains many nuances and special dynamics, with exceptions to so many vague situations. In general: Men are the problem. I don't care to further dissect the issue without good school credit.
Manuel Ulliac. I can't assume that I don't know wheather I'm agnostic.

Em Renz
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Posted 01/21/06 - 01:27 PM:	#47
"I told a feminist friend of mine I'm interested in taking a feminist course. My reason was: 'Maybe like Freud, I want to understand women better?' The responce I got was: 'Men shouldn't really try to understand women, they should just generally comply.'" LOL - a feminist indeed - I'd say that with that first response she and her ilk have already begun to show you quite alot of just what they are about!
Que scais je?

mike hemens
Student

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Posted 02/01/06 - 10:26 PM:	#48
How is "taking a feminist course" an attempt at understanding women (real people). The only "mackin" is your college brenkin pockets and checkin you kids.
"going where the weather suits my clothes."-

Floyd
Cool

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Posted 02/02/06 - 12:52 PM:	#49
How is "taking a feminist course" an attempt at understanding women (real people). The same way taking a zoology course helps one understand animals. -Floyd
Short and to the point. \| Online Philosophy Club \| Book & Reading Forums \| My Philosophy Articles "Only the descent into the hell of self-knowledge can pave the way to godliness." ~Immanuel Kant

mike hemens
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Posted 02/02/06 - 04:36 PM:	#50
Your comparision is offensive and not even valid. Feminism is a movement. Feminest coarse not 'course on woman'. Zoology is a 'course on animals'. Regardless that's not what I was refering to. Tell any chick that you're 'taking a feminist course to understand women' and that's going to be a red fuckin flag on you right there. And rightly so. (Pull head out of bum)
"going where the weather suits my clothes."-

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