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"The woman question"
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"The woman question"

Coendou
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Posted 01/17/06 - 08:33 AM:	#21
Yes of course on most points. I wasn't implying that this is absolute. Laughing at a joke I don't think implies a mood though, or possibly she could have been in a bad one. To give an example, the other night I couldn't sleep and got up to watch television, which generally bores me right to sleep, and my girlfriend got up and asked if I was not at that moment sleeping with her because she was too fat. I doubt the reverse of that scenario happens with any frequency. To clarify, all people feel emotions due to some external influence. I think woman more frequently experience emotion due to some internal factor not based on reason. Granted that men can get angry but usually have some justification wether valid or not. So, I think it's more the reason for the emotion and the source of it rather than the emotion itself. Given a level playing field when things are going relatively well, my experince is that woman experience more unprovoked emotion than men. Again, that isn't an absolute and could be a 60-40 type thing, although from my experience, it's much higher. I'm am biased, as I am a fairly even keeled individual.

180 Proof
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Posted 01/17/06 - 04:49 PM:	#22
Coendou wrote: To give an example, the other night I couldn't sleep and got up to watch television, which generally bores me right to sleep, and my girlfriend got up and asked if I was not at that moment sleeping with her because she was too fat. I doubt the reverse of that scenario happens with any frequency. i think you're right ... but, well, is she -- too fat?
if X = -X, then -X. "existence" entails specifiable conditions (e.g. evidence, sound argument, search parameters, etc.) void, or perfect symmetry (i.e. no where/when/thing), necessarily is perfectly unstable. THAT there is something at all (i.e. broken symmetry e.g. quantum fluctuations) is "random"; however, WHAT that something becomes (e.g. universes) is not.

Petunia
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Posted 01/17/06 - 05:31 PM:	#23
Coendou wrote: To give an example, the other night I couldn't sleep and got up to watch television, which generally bores me right to sleep, and my girlfriend got up and asked if I was not at that moment sleeping with her because she was too fat. I doubt the reverse of that scenario happens with any frequency. To clarify, all people feel emotions due to some external influence. I think woman more frequently experience emotion due to some internal factor not based on reason. Granted that men can get angry but usually have some justification wether valid or not. Women also have some justification "whether valid or not". Weight is a constant issue for women. I don't know what your girlfriend's experiences are, but many women have had father figures tell them they are fat, no man will want them, boyfriends who actively prefer skinny ladies, girls who tease each other about weight, magazine articles that suggest your lover will reject you because of your weight, countless images of glamorous, thin women, etc. It is very likely that she had some reason for feeling that way. Women (and probably men) don't always react immediately to the event that triggers a negative feeling. It can fester and grow and emerge at an unlikely moment. Sometimes the person may not be immediately aware of the initial motivator. I knew a woman who had gained weight due to very severe medical problems. Her husband attempted to "motivate" her to lose weight by videotaping thin women in bikinis on their family vacation. (he was habitually a bully) When I heard about it, I was really "pissed off".
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180 Proof
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Posted 01/18/06 - 07:38 AM:	#24
Petunia wrote: I knew a woman who had gained weight due to very severe medical problems. Her husband attempted to "motivate" her to lose weight by videotaping thin women in bikinis on their family vacation. (he was habitually a bully) When I heard about it, I was really "pissed off". i don't blame you. he sounds like a callous asshole ...
if X = -X, then -X. "existence" entails specifiable conditions (e.g. evidence, sound argument, search parameters, etc.) void, or perfect symmetry (i.e. no where/when/thing), necessarily is perfectly unstable. THAT there is something at all (i.e. broken symmetry e.g. quantum fluctuations) is "random"; however, WHAT that something becomes (e.g. universes) is not.

Tobias
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Posted 01/18/06 - 07:51 AM:	#25
Why are women marrying bullies? Even after I tell them, they still mary them. I never get that regards Tobi
"The Power of Kant compels you" "The Power of Kant compels you" "The Power of Kant compels you"

Coendou
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Posted 01/18/06 - 08:38 AM:	#26
180 Proof wrote: i think you're right ... but, well, is she -- too fat? Not at all, it came right out of left field. Something that wasn't previously discussed between us.

Coendou
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Posted 01/18/06 - 08:42 AM:	#27
Petunia wrote: Women also have some justification "whether valid or not". Weight is a constant issue for women. I don't know what your girlfriend's experiences are, but many women have had father figures tell them they are fat, no man will want them, boyfriends who actively prefer skinny ladies, girls who tease each other about weight, magazine articles that suggest your lover will reject you because of your weight, countless images of glamorous, thin women, etc. It is very likely that she had some reason for feeling that way. Women (and probably men) don't always react immediately to the event that triggers a negative feeling. It can fester and grow and emerge at an unlikely moment. Sometimes the person may not be immediately aware of the initial motivator. I knew a woman who had gained weight due to very severe medical problems. Her husband attempted to "motivate" her to lose weight by videotaping thin women in bikinis on their family vacation. (he was habitually a bully) When I heard about it, I was really "pissed off". Yes of course, but boys get pressure on them too to perform, etc. It seems more easily shrugged off by men overall. I wouldn't for example say to my girlfriend if she got up and was sleeping on the sofa, "is it because I don't play baseball well enough?"

Petunia
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Posted 01/18/06 - 09:09 AM:	#28
Tobias wrote: Why are women marrying bullies? Even after I tell them, they still mary them. I never get that regards Tobi While physical abuse is commonly male directed towards female, I have also seen too many cases of emotional abuse from women towards men. This is a complex question you raise, but there are reasons. These are some which I understand. During our early development we must accept a massive amount of information at face value. Whatever we encounter we experience as "normal". It creates a baseline for our expectations. If someone is mistreated during development, that becomes their sense of normalcy, and they will seek out people and environments throughout their life to maintain that normalcy. Related to this is emotional scarring and how it affects our choices. Those with very deep scars live continually with emotional agony which they cannot face, so they find external stimuli to validate these horrible and complex feelings, but are easier to process. It is the same reason people self-harm. It simplifies, and so lessens, the emotional pain. In the long run, of course, it is greatly increased. When someone is mistreated, it often leaves the person with a lack of closure. They long to correct this problem and may look for another person with the same problem in hopes of correcting it this time. It seems unbearable to face the possiblity that pain is the only outcome and there was no meaning, no resolution. A person who bullies someone, usually rewards them as well. If you create both an emotional need and fill it, the person can become emotionally addicted to you. They stay by such a person for the times their needs are filled. They can come to feel they deserve the punishment. They feel that losing the person is to lose everything and be left empty and alone without a crumb of fulfillment. Some women (and men) are very gentle and kind, and have trouble processing a hard cruel person. They instead project their own vulnerabilities onto this person assuming that this cruel behavior is motivated by tremendous pain. (and sometimes it is). They can experience their own suffering as his suffering. They see the cruel person as a vulnerable child who needs their nurturing and will be lost without them. "Other people will just hate him and mistreat him. They won't understand his pain. He needs me to protect him." It is as though they lose a sense of self into the other person. Interestingly, the abuser can also project their own coldness onto their victim. Inadvertedly, the victim is a living criticism, a constant reminder of what a worthless jerk the abuser is. The abuser often assumes the role of victim in his mind and justifies his cruelty by seeing his victim as a deserving "bitch". Edited by Petunia on 01/18/06 - 09:56 AM
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jaoman
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Posted 01/18/06 - 11:09 AM:	#29
Add to that, women generally tend to be more attracted to "powerful males" and the same experience can produce a negative reaction in a man. This has some anthropological/cultural and evolutionary basis. Just so, men have more accomplishment pressure pressed upon them, while women are driven to looks. Again, mind you, an generalization - but culturally the case is undeniable, and biologically there are good reason to assume such a split also. I'm sure we've all heard the women needing support while with child theory. This would be fine, but cultural development toward a male dominated society further strengthened necessity. So, to answer why women marry bullies, we say bullies have an air of confidence and capability about them. Sometimes an error, but nonetheless... As for fatness, the radar some women have for it is absolutely terrifying, as are the lengths to which they'd go to preserve their looks. My mother, for instance, has insomnia - resultingly, depression, exhaustion, irritability, etc,. She's recently stopped taking melatonin supplements because, she claims, she's gaining weight. I can't tell the difference and she hasn't dated in at least ten years - and yet...
"With no relation to class or social background, whether it suits them or not, people yearn for a dream. Sustained by a dream, hurt by a dream, revived by a dream, killed by a dream. And even after being abandoned by a dream, it continues to smolder from the bottom of one's heart... probably until the verge of death. A man should envision such a lifetime once. A life spent as a martyr to the god named "dream." - Kentaro Miura

180 Proof
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Posted 01/18/06 - 11:31 AM: Subject: either way we're all "deserving bitches" in one way or another ...	#30
Petunia wrote: Some women (and men) are very gentle and kind, and have trouble processing a hard cruel person. They instead project their own vulnerabilities onto this person assuming that this cruel behavior is motivated by tremendous pain. (and sometimes it is). They can experience their own suffering as his suffering. They see the cruel person as a vulnerable child who needs their nurturing and will be lost without them. "Other people will just hate him and mistreat him. They won't understand his pain. He needs me to protect him." It is as though they lose a sense of self into the other person. Interestingly, the abuser can also project their own coldness onto their victim. Inadvertedly, the victim is a living criticism, a constant reminder of what a worthless jerk the abuser is. The abuser often assumes the role of victim in his mind and justifies his cruelty by seeing his victim as a deserving "bitch". from the outside-looking-in it appears to be a variation on "the stockholm syndrome" but on the inside it's just joylessly sublimated sado-masochism. there's no such thing as an adult victim who's not on some level complicit in his or her own victimization; likewise there's no such thing as an abuser who's not to some degree also a victim acting out his or her own traumas. females in secular liberal bourgeois societies are denied (mostly) by socialization the resourcefulness needed to break out of these emotional (pathological!) vicious cycles, though it does seem (btw, don't these anecdotal overgeneralizations just goose ya?!) that they are better at avoiding self-destructive traps like these than their male counterparts. the ugly truth may be that for many pain is an aphrodisiac ... Edited by 180 Proof on 01/18/06 - 04:18 PM. Reason: no doubt another bout of 'roid rage ...
if X = -X, then -X. "existence" entails specifiable conditions (e.g. evidence, sound argument, search parameters, etc.) void, or perfect symmetry (i.e. no where/when/thing), necessarily is perfectly unstable. THAT there is something at all (i.e. broken symmetry e.g. quantum fluctuations) is "random"; however, WHAT that something becomes (e.g. universes) is not.

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