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The Wizard

Cadrache
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Posted 10/26/09 - 04:26 PM:	#21
Belief is independent from facts Ben-tem64. Why can you make an alegory to a non-existent being known as a wizard in order to magically produce food from nothing yet I cannot use 'wizard' to merely continue causality within a limited area?
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Desidude666
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Posted 10/26/09 - 11:57 PM:	#22
It's merely that you don't fall in 'love'. The biggest thing that could go wrong for you ever in life is when you fall in the slimy pit of compassion you call 'love'. There are always trade-offs and you always get it wrong, no matter your understanding with your kin - no living being can get it 'right' because you cannot. You expect sentimental, emotional and physical trade, expected to give more 'selflessly' (biologically impossible, you can never do this), but give just about enough to protect your own emotional interests. When these expectations are not met (when one is gratified), we have conflict - as evidenced in that story towards the end, only that the Wizard controlled his instinctive reaction to a loss. And all this 'love' nonsense helps gel you within this pit of ignorance. If the Wizard hadn't fallen in 'love' - he would have been better prepared to judge if those people were capable enough to live independently, or could kill another. He can materialize food and water ... can't he predict accurately then? Why must his passion for this girl limit his deeds to her and not the rest, where is the responsibility? He was blinded by his 'love' (passion), followed by ignorance that always follows this emotion. Of course all of this is theoretical for me though. Based on what I've read, it's all obvious.
What you are, you are by accident of birth; what I am, I am by myself. There are and will be a thousand princes; there is only one Beethoven. - Ludwig van Beethoven

Cadrache
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Posted 10/28/09 - 02:28 PM:	#23
Nah... I much prefer the "Wizards don't exist clause". As such we should completely ignore all actions derived from the misunderstood relationship between ethics and morals. Because the wizard does not in reality exist then ethics and morals cannot exist simply because morals and ethics are being applied to the wizard...
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Desidude666
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Posted 10/28/09 - 10:55 PM:	#24
Cadrache wrote: Because the wizard does not in reality exist then ethics and morals cannot exist simply because morals and ethics are being applied to the wizard... What about the people? Or that woman? Suppose you speak of an event in the past, does it not hold moral or ethical value? Your past doesn't exist anyway, as time does not, however, wouldn't you then be denying ethics based on experiences? What is the difference between a mythical tale and an experience of another in the past? In this case, let's just say there is no material evidence remain of the 'past' - do you still derive ethics and morals from it, or discard it?
What you are, you are by accident of birth; what I am, I am by myself. There are and will be a thousand princes; there is only one Beethoven. - Ludwig van Beethoven

Cadrache
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Posted 10/29/09 - 04:29 PM:	#25
If the Wizard doesn't exist what is the liklihood that the village cannot exist as well? The regression pact between ethics and the physical subjects that portray ethics do not follow the same object-attribute relationship. Very good question! The only problem with your implied argument is 'mythical tale'. Have you ever listened to war stories? The hero and the old man whose past it is are different different beings. The account of the individual versus the account of public knowledge occassionally differentiates between mere causality and the meaning behind life.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

ben_tam64
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Posted 10/29/09 - 09:03 PM:	#26
The Wizard exists in the story. The art of my writing is to symbolize what I see in reality. If you do not think the Wizard exists, then don't even use him in your trivial"farmer's dilemna" I do not see the point you are trying to make Cadrache. You need to make your thesis clear.

Desidude666
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Posted 10/30/09 - 12:12 AM:	#27
Cadrache wrote: If the Wizard doesn't exist what is the liklihood that the village cannot exist as well? The regression pact between ethics and the physical subjects that portray ethics do not follow the same object-attribute relationship. Very good question! The only problem with your implied argument is 'mythical tale'. Have you ever listened to war stories? The hero and the old man whose past it is are different different beings. The account of the individual versus the account of public knowledge occassionally differentiates between mere causality and the meaning behind life. What is the difference between a myth (some urban or rural folk tale) and your past. What do you derive out of such tales? By mythical, I mean extravagantly 'supernatural' - do you relate to ethical and moral positions of it's theme or do you merely discard it as non-existent? If you do, what makes your past exist? Apart from material remains, there is no evidence of your past barring acknowledgement of others, who relate with you. So in that sense, if you agree that your past can be used as ethical reference, mythical tales also provide a degree of moral references reflecting modern zeitgeist.
What you are, you are by accident of birth; what I am, I am by myself. There are and will be a thousand princes; there is only one Beethoven. - Ludwig van Beethoven

Cadrache
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Posted 10/30/09 - 02:09 PM:	#28
Ben_tam64: Simply because a different thread is dependant from a previous experience or knowledge does not neccessarily mean that it is successfully argued from a previous thread. The most hidden aspect of "The farmer's dilemma" is the relevent information for this thread. Then these two are then applied to yet another one of your threads. The giving out of Rote knowledge is almost never initiated by me Ben. I will not tell you which thoughts to think. I will however exclaim time and again "There is a fork in the road!" I get tired of people claiming they explore a path to reach a destination which they already are at. If you do see parts of the fork I may occassionally expand - but still I will not give Rote information. You might benefit from looking not at 'exist' but at existence. I see many different points of perception Ben. As such I tend to argue different ideas to any specific statment. I do occassionally try to keep specific trends of thought seperated by independent posts. "The non-existence of the physical Wizard" is a different statement then what Desidude666 is looking at currently. Try using the story of Newton discovering Gravity as a disproof - instead of claiming that I cannot use Mr. Wizard. Desidude666: There may be two aspects to the linguistic function of 'arbitrary'. Edited by Cadrache on 10/30/09 - 02:15 PM
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

ben_tam64
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Posted 10/31/09 - 12:11 AM:	#29
If you contradict yourself, it is not an appeal to reason. Reason is the study of nature, Nature does not contradict itself. Find a belief system that works, and stick with it.

Cadrache
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Posted 10/31/09 - 06:57 AM:	#30
What you are really claiming is not to find my own belief system. I already have that. And it contains ideologies and things that you cannot percieve. What you truly state is that you insist that I find one that you agree with - that it is a contradiction to have different knowledges and experiences for different individuals.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

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