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The Reality of God
A rational view of how God exists in and outside the universe

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The Reality of God

Dragohunter
illusion is persistent

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Posted 11/02/09 - 06:42 PM:	#21
Black holes are still under study because they require both the physics of quantum mechanics and general relativity. You can't really have both because they aim towards opposite claims so physicists are aiming at a unified theory. Singularities so far are only irregularities we're trying to scratch out, unless we're wrong about that.
"Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal." - Albert Einstein

Marc-André
Initiate

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Posted 11/03/09 - 03:29 AM:	#22
First, I have to say something that is pretty important and helpful to me, and in my opinion should be the same to anybody else that discusses the existence of god: Its, in my opinion impossible to get an answer to the question who or what is god. We can remember that by simply thinking of what god stands for: For an unique being that helds power and wisdom far from ours. So, all that I`m going to say is just my way of looking at this topic and not to be taken to serious.. So, to say something about the actual topic: I think the idea of god as being something like a conciousness in the universe has quite something. In my opinion, god (now lets think of him as a being apart from our universe) wouldnt take any active role in any environment at all, because god wouldnt want to interact with our actions in order to keep them ours and free. How else could god ever get a truly belief in him from any being, when this belief is forced by a speficic interaction of god? the conciousness we are talking about though, would be kind of a different one in my eyes.As a creation of god, this universe would look incredibly different when god as a counsciousness would look at it.In fact, I think that this kind of existence wouldnt make any difference to a god existing directly in the universe. This conciousness would be aware of any process in the phisical world and even our thoughts. Simply by the fact that god created all this and he could then, look at this world in any way possibly imaginable, as we do, and of course in a way that would give every single molecule his very right part in the universe and life at all. So by having created the universe and being able to look at it as some kind of all aware conciousness, god would still have all the power he had before. By creating Phisycs he set up a frame within life can develop.The universe doesnt need any more interactions from god, if he created it, he knew what all can happen and it looks like it was all good. (never forget, if god was almighty, he would have known whats all going to happen in his universe, but still he did it, so it must have a good reason). Now what about us humans then?What about prayer?Is it then impossible to interact with god? Now, besides the phisical world, there are such things as our mind, that seem to have the power to look behind gods phisical barrier. Our mind has no restrictions in his ability of creating new ways of looking at the already existing world.And that process, that we do every day, leads us to our experience of good and bad, to our opinions and our dreams inside this complex universe. And out of our experiences in life, we start making decisions which lead us to further experiences and decisions and so on. And here comes the point: We all want to make the right decisions and by doing that we start looking for some rules of good, some ways of looking at the world that fits to our desires. Its no big suprise then, when people ask for the knowledge of the creator itselft and all the problems within its existence. So god doesn`t even has to be something else than a mind, than a counciousness to be with his creations. Because by the universe is already so full packed of experiences ( that are for me nothing less than gods ideas and way to teach ) that humans have to interact with god or at least his expressions of life all the time. And that process of understanding the world is, somehow, a process of understanding god. So it all leads back to him. If god created the universe, we are then right in the middle of gods ideas, yeah, to use the words of tommy; whe`re then right in the middle of gods mind.

longfun
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Posted 11/03/09 - 03:58 AM:	#23
tommygun77 wrote: In order to imagine a God outside of time and other laws of the universe yet to be contained within it simultaneously I will bring in the example of something we know of that is outside of time and universal laws, yet interacts with the universe and these constants; the mind. strange reasoning: if god is out of time, how do you make the jump that the mind is also out of time? As the mind sits within time... any impression in the mind is reflected as a physical structure in your brain. I would have followed your reasoning if you would take the physical or any dimension you know and remove the time out of that physical or dimensional equation...leading you directly to the answer: potentiality tommygun77 wrote: I propose that God, if existing, would exist in a similar state, a kind of consciousness of the universe, born simultaneously. In this way it is possible for God to exist with an interventionist nature and enormous influence over the happenings of the universe. As we are all equal parts of this universe we are all part of the vessel that holds the 'God Mind' which would make us pretty special, but as when we die our bodies remain apart of the universe, we are not exceptional. As the mind exists in me, I have no trouble conceiving this possibility. As for why? I have no idea. Any thoughts welcomed! In such if god would behave and emerge as a mind it would have a physical structure somenwhere. That would make this physical structure also god, as it emerges hand in had with this god mind... better even.. everything physical would be god.... and the circle is full, no division...
I'm Long and I'm playing the greatest game of all.

Theseus925
Aspirant

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Posted 11/18/09 - 11:11 PM:	#24
If the mind were outside of time and the universal laws, yet interacted with the universe and these constants and god were outside of time and the universal laws yet interacted with the universe and these constants" there would be no need to imagine a god. The mind is god and god is mind, a kind of consciousness of the universe, born simultaneously with the consciousness of man. However, once you bring your imagined god down from the ivory tower of imagination into the real world "with an interventionist nature and enormous influence over the happenings of the universe," this you cannot imagine. As that great philosopher Alan Jackson said, "here in the real world it's not that easy at all." Here in the real world you must provide concrete scientific evidence that your imagined god does intervene and exert influence. To date no one has been able to do that. The problem with all of this is imagination. The mind can imagine anything and believe anything but you can't take it to the bank. There is no belief so ridiculous and bazaar that it cannot find believers--also the fault of imagination. Imagination--the great hatchery of cults, religions, and philosophies. The other animals seem to do just fine without a god, but poor man, the most competent of all the animals, searches desperately and unendingly for a god. Concerning gods, the other animals have an advantage over man--no imagination. But then imagination is the glory of man, a part of his consciousness that gives him no end of pleasure and profit but always accompanied by god longings--love longings. If god had a heart, he wouldn't conceal himself so effectively. Perhaps one day he will stop playing games and come out of hiding. I hope not. How in the world would we speculators kill time while we're waiting for god to kill us. Edited by Theseus925 on 11/20/09 - 02:37 PM
We are in a war with time. While we are looking for ways to kill time, time is looking for ways to kill us--Theseus

jeeprs
Student

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Posted 11/21/09 - 02:43 AM:	#25
I think this is an generally orthodox idea except for the fact that most orthodox religious would say God as mind was never born (hence 'eternal'). Other than that, though, this line of thought is a major theme in Neo-platonism and most Catholic theology. Thomas Aquinas wrote a work called 'On there Only Being One Intellect'. There is a well-known Buddhist text on the 'Liberation Through Knowing the One Mind' edited by Evans Wentz. Even a recent physicist, I can't remember who exactly, said something like 'the more we know about the cosmos, the more it seems a great mind han a great machine.'.

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