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The "Problems" of Philosophy

ade90212
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Posted 11/22/06 - 01:55 PM: Subject: The "Problems" of Philosophy	#1
In what sense are the "problems" of philosophy problems at all? It seems to me that philosophical "problems" are similar to crossword problems in that they are just one way with which we play with words. They are problems which we create. If we agreed to stop creating crossword puzzles, they would simply disappear. Similarly, if we agreed to stop doing philosophy, philosophical problems would disappear. They (both crossword problems and philosophy problems) are useful as an amusing distraction, (and possibly as a means of exercising the brain) but in the final analysis it doesn't matter whether we "solve" them or not. For example, I was reading the thread on 'The Problem of Other Minds' and I thought, 'Well, what is the problem?' - That we can't know for certain that there are other minds, in the same way that we can know for certain that '2 + 2 = 4'? Big deal. Does it make even the tiniest difference to us? No. I'm not trying to knock philosophy per se, but I do think that philosophers take themselves and their subject matter too seriously. Marx was right up to a point when he said, 'Philosophers have only described the world. The point is to change it.'The point may be to change it, but that doesn;t mean we cannot engage in other worthy activities along the way. Philosophy is a worthwhile pursuit in the same way that art, music or litreature are; not in the way science is. The "problems" of philosophy are very interesting, but lets not forget that they are just games with words; as Wittgenstein put it "language on holiday".
"Philosophers often behave like little children who scribble some marks on a piece of paper at random and then ask the grown-up "What's that?" - It happened like this: the grown-up had drawn pictures for the child several times and said: "this is a man", "this is a house", etc. And then the child makes some marks too and asks: what's this then?" - Ludwig Wittgenstein, Culture and Value

Dont Know
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Posted 11/22/06 - 02:02 PM:	#2
Is the purpose of your post to say you agree with Wittgenstien? He has a great attack on modern philosophy, or psuedo philosophy, but has nothing on true philosophy. edit: And Wittgenstien's writing is inconsistent by his own acknowledgement.
"As industry and the arts spread and flower, the scorned cultivator, burdened with taxes necessary for the maintenance of luxury and condemned to spend his life between labor and hunger, abandons his fields to go to the cities in search of the bread he ought to carry there." - Rousseau

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Posted 11/22/06 - 02:15 PM:	#3
When I practice philosophy, I do so to get a better grasp of the world, and I do this similarly in science, art, etc. All modes of action are just that - modes (or practices, if you get agitated by the word 'modes'). Philosophy is one of them. I do not give priority to science over philosophy in all matters. There are problems for which philosophy is better suited. The problem of other minds is one of them. That being said, lots of philosophy is not needed to live a good life. So overstressing it would indeed be stupid.
"it's when a philosopher has no more problems that the next philosopher is about to arrive." Gilles Deleuze "information is endlessly available to us. Where shall wisdom be found?" Harold Bloom "The feeling of believing is a more or less sure indication of there being established in our nature some habit which will determine our actions. Doubt never has such an effect." -- Charles Sanders Peirce

ying
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Posted 11/22/06 - 03:08 PM:	#4
ade90212 wrote: In what sense are the "problems" of philosophy problems at all? It seems to me that philosophical "problems" are similar to crossword problems in that they are just one way with which we play with words. They are problems which we create. If we agreed to stop creating crossword puzzles, they would simply disappear. Similarly, if we agreed to stop doing philosophy, philosophical problems would disappear. They (both crossword problems and philosophy problems) are useful as an amusing distraction, (and possibly as a means of exercising the brain) but in the final analysis it doesn't matter whether we "solve" them or not. No. Philosophical questions keep popping up, just look at all the metaphilosophies, popping up more recently... And it seems the big questions (what is truth, why am I here, is there a God, what's the meaning of life etc) are reached independently by most people even before they have even heard of philosophy as a way of enquiry. Before philosophy was actually called that way, some people used to wonder about the world... To me, this amazement at the mystery of existance is part of the human condition... If we would stop doing philosophy, we would still have the questions. If you are talking about quitting all enquiry all together, then you are talking about Ataraxia, wich is itself part of sceptical philosophy. For example, I was reading the thread on 'The Problem of Other Minds' and I thought, 'Well, what is the problem?' - That we can't know for certain that there are other minds, in the same way that we can know for certain that '2 + 2 = 4'? Big deal. Does it make even the tiniest difference to us? No. Yeah some people overintellectualise. So what? It's their time to waste. I'm not trying to knock philosophy per se, but I do think that philosophers take themselves and their subject matter too seriously. Marx was right up to a point when he said, 'Philosophers have only described the world. The point is to change it.'The point may be to change it, but that doesn;t mean we cannot engage in other worthy activities along the way. Philosophy is a worthwhile pursuit in the same way that art, music or litreature are; not in the way science is. The "problems" of philosophy are very interesting, but lets not forget that they are just games with words; as Wittgenstein put it "language on holiday". Marx also was a revolutionary; he got that mixed up with philosophy. Besides, wanting to change the world is a naive notion. 1. Do you know that your changes will be beneficial? 2. Have you ever tried changing just one person? Just see how hard that is. Now multiply that by a coupple of bilion. 3. Even changing yourself takes a whole lot of effort and time... And you are talking about the world? Don't get me wrong here, wanting to change the world is a noble thought, but so are a lot of other naive ideas... And according to Wittgenstein everything is a languagegame, so I don't see why that should be held against philosophy, specifically. I really don't get why people keep creating these threads anyway... It seems like philosophical trolling to me. If you think philosophy is useless, then don't do it. No one is forcing you. I, for one, don't bother with things I regard as useless, like posting how useless astrology is in an astrology forum.
*"I determined nothing."* -Sceptical expression

Hypothesis
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Posted 11/22/06 - 03:19 PM:	#5
ade, Why are you confusing philosophy with pragmatism ?
We build too many walls and not enough bridges. - Newton

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Posted 11/23/06 - 01:36 AM:	#6
What you seem to be saying could just as easily be wrote as why do we bother to do anything. You say that philosophy is useful in ways like art and literature are, yet not science?? That seems an odd thing to claim. Many philosophical debates on the philosophy of mind for instance seem to rely on and support science. Just vaguely looking at Logical Behaviourism or the Mind Brain Identity Theory. I'm not trying to knock philosophy per se, but I do think that philosophers take themselves and their subject matter too seriously. Now again this seems to be an odd thing you are saying. How can you take the matter of philosophical questions too seriously?? The questions of "is their a god?, what is life?, what is the mind?". These are questions that many people strive for the answers of with out realising it. It is in much the same way of saying a doctor who works 20 hours a day trying to find a cure for cancer and other diseases is taking his job too seriously. I know my example there isn't exactly a good one. Bringing the difference of life saving and ultimate enquiry together yet it shows my point. If you are going to do something you may aswell take it seriously and strive to do it to the best of your ability. Or why do it at all...
Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. - Friedrich Nietzsche The man of knowledge must be able not only to love his enemies but also to hate his friends. - Friedrich Nietzsche

sensabile
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Posted 11/23/06 - 05:19 AM:	#7
ade90212 wrote: but in the final analysis it doesn't matter whether we "solve" them or not. Why not?
For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

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Posted 11/23/06 - 05:59 AM:	#8
I think there is something to this. Much philosophy doesn't tell us much about the world, but rather about how we put words together. This does however have some affect on the world. The mannr in which we arrange words, the way we talk to people, has an affect on thier behaviours. Martin Luther King Jr. would be a great example of this. Simply by putting words like "equality" and "rights" and "pride" and "freedom" together in a certain way, he was a catalyst for major social change. What I think is either dangerous or a big waste of time is when philosophers think that they are doing more than playing a language game.
Nobody ever became a famous philosopher by being a champion of ecumenical hybridism Daniel Dennett Freedom Evolves

Tobias
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Posted 11/23/06 - 06:14 AM:	#9
If by your acknowledgement Martin Luther Kings words translated to socail change he was doing more than playing a language game. I'm beginning to think that this whole notion of language game is a big mistake. What is actually said if someone tells me I am playing a language game?
"The Power of Kant compels you" "The Power of Kant compels you" "The Power of Kant compels you"

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Posted 11/23/06 - 06:20 AM:	#10
I don't understand your question. You understand what the language game is, right? I don't claim he was doing more than the language game, I was pointing out how that doingcan lead to acheiving. No different than the way that doing the "cooking game" can achieve someone geting fed.
Nobody ever became a famous philosopher by being a champion of ecumenical hybridism Daniel Dennett Freedom Evolves

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