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The Nature of Language
Opposing Viewpoints on the Nature of Language and its Relation to Reality/Life

The Nature of Language

Superlutheran
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Posted 07/03/07 - 07:43 AM: Subject: The Nature of Language	#1
There are a number of different arguments about how language relates to life, reality, the world, etc... floating about the forums. Perhaps the issue should be explored in its own section. A general argument on the nature of language in theoretical and applied forms.
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Superlutheran
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Posted 07/03/07 - 08:27 AM:	#2
The field of linguistics is growing in importance and interest as we continue to delve into the secrets of theoretical and applied language. The subtlety of word distinction, the depth of etymology, and the relation of communicaiton to reality are startling in their immense use and importance. Yet language is, more often than not, forgotten in a mathematical world where the cut-and-dry logic of numbers has trampled to pure reason of words. That fact has become more important than truth and wisdom is ruined with knowledge proves out the defeat of linguistics in the face of mathematical tyranny. Language is our means to giving shape to reality. Through communication (the function of language) we establish the real. Without language and communication, we would have no concept of reality as it is, we would have only an animal's grasp of being, that is, we would be little more than instinct. As a Christian, I understand the importance of language because that is the mode of revelation God has elected to communicate with us (thereby giving us a way into God's reality). Language is very important to reality, they are not the same, but reality, as we sense and understand it, depends on linguistic discourse or communication in the broader sense.
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ragus
empirical qualist

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Posted 07/03/07 - 12:37 PM:	#3
Superlutheran wrote Through communication (the function of language) Languages have to communicate or they'd be useless. We can focus on how communication happens (linguistics, etc) but the question is "what is the purpose of the communication"? You partly answer this by saying that language gives shape to reality. So shaping reality (a result) via communication (a means) is a use of language.
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Rochester
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1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 07/04/07 - 02:31 PM:	#4
I should have thought God would have a better way to communicate with us: via telepathy, visions, immediate intuition of meaning,...isn't he way beyond our clunky old language systems?

ragus
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Posted 07/05/07 - 12:51 AM:	#5
Rochester wrote isn't he way beyond our clunky old language systems He might be but we aren't?
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hyena in petticoat
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Posted 07/11/07 - 04:48 AM:	#6
Superlutheran wrote: A general argument on the nature of language in theoretical and applied forms. Is this like "object-language" and "meta-language" kind of thing? Alfred Tarski's? Ring a bell? Or..should I elaborate?
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Elio Gabalus
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Posted 08/11/07 - 11:36 AM:	#7
I have to confess that I didn't read the above posts carefully, but the main question is not clear for me. What's the problem? No one has ever seen language itself, there are only linguistic behaviors. But if we want to keep the concept 'philosophy of language' meaningfull we have to assume that there is something like the nature of language.
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t.goloubentsev
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Posted 08/13/07 - 09:09 AM:	#8
I agree with Rochester; language, at least in its present transcribed form, in my opinion is too fallacious to be the primary method of communication from a deity. Of course, one can argue that mathematics, art, et cetera are alternative languages, but I assume we are talking about the written word... yes?

mcatalan
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Posted 08/17/07 - 12:10 AM:	#9
Superlutheran wrote: The field of linguistics is growing in importance and interest as we continue to delve into the secrets of theoretical and applied language. The subtlety of word distinction, the depth of etymology, and the relation of communicaiton to reality are startling in their immense use and importance. Is this the same field that recently concluded nerds choose to be nerds in order to not-act-black, because people who are perceived as the word "nerd" are not perceived to act-black? Superlutheran wrote: Yet language is, more often than not, forgotten in a mathematical world where the cut-and-dry logic of numbers has trampled to pure reason of words. That fact has become more important than truth and wisdom is ruined with knowledge proves out the defeat of linguistics in the face of mathematical tyranny. You don't understand mathematics. It is deeply rooted in the capabilities of language. Facts have trampled knowledge. Truth is defeated in the face of wisdom. Reason deceives us more than nature. Superlutheran wrote: Language is our means to giving shape to reality. Through communication (the function of language) we establish the real. Without language and communication, we would have no concept of reality as it is, we would have only an animal's grasp of being, that is, we would be little more than instinct. Being is reality. Through communication (the consequence of being) we establish language. Without language, we would have no way to talk about reality. All animals communicate, we just communicate more. Our brand of communication is especially well suited to making tools and machines. We use our tools to make written languages and skyscrapers. Then we figure out that animals communicate, just in a different voice and for different functions. Then we figure out that animals and insects create skyscrapers, just on a different scale. We feel our functions are superior, so we think we are the only ones who belong in reality. Superlutheran wrote: As a Christian, I understand the importance of language because that is the mode of revelation God has elected to communicate with us (thereby giving us a way into God's reality). As a human being, I understand the impotence of language because that is the mode we have elected to define God (thereby giving us a way out of our reality). Superlutheran wrote: Language is very important to reality, they are not the same, but reality, as we sense and understand it, depends on linguistic discourse or communication in the broader sense. We depend on linguistic discourse and communication to understand our senses, reality does not. I wish I could find this article about why linguists have no fashion sense while semioticians are very dapper. Edited by mcatalan on 08/17/07 - 12:15 AM
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Rochester
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Posted 08/17/07 - 07:31 AM:	#10
very funny, mcatalan! and for anyone who missed it: white and nerdy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEzGIuY7kw Rochester: dapper linguist.

coglanglab
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Posted 08/20/07 - 02:05 PM:	#11
Superlutheran wrote: Language is our means to giving shape to reality. Through communication (the function of language) we establish the real. Without language and communication, we would have no concept of reality as it is, we would have only an animal's grasp of being, that is, we would be little more than instinct. Animals can understand a remarkably wide range of things. I recommend going to a zoo, parking yourself in front of a primate cage (especially gibbons or chimps), and watching them for a few hours. The best is if you can do this multiple times. They act incredibly human, despite lacking language. If you have less time, the Jane Gooddall website has some great videos of chimp behavior. You might also be interested in some of the research Mark Hauser has done (http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~mnkylab/). ---- Please take a few minutes to participate in a science experiment: http://coglanglab.org http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/blog/coglanglab

schizoman
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Posted 04/12/08 - 09:55 AM: Subject: Genesis and Ontology	#12
I would be interested if anyone finds the first sentence of the KJV Bible as thought provoking as I do? In the beginning was the word. Concept precedes percept? The image I conjure up is of reality as some formless ooze from which objects appear to be scooped out by concepts. This takes the idea that language shapes our reality to a whole new level. I'm not sure I buy it, but the concept () has been rumbling around in my head for the past few weeks.
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unenlightened
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Posted 04/14/08 - 01:03 AM:	#13
schizoman wrote: The image I conjure up is of reality as some formless ooze from which objects appear to be scooped out by concepts. This takes the idea that language shapes our reality to a whole new level. Sure. All is one, formless void - paradise, until the logos divides it 'in the mind' into A and notA, subject and object, inside and outside, light and darkness, divided and undivided. But don't worry, it's all just talk; there was no beginning and it's still all paradise.
_____________________ The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

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