The nature of Consciousness.: Philosophy Forums

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The nature of Consciousness.

Ever
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Posted 04/07/03 - 05:59 AM:	#1
If you believe Consciousness is a sliding scale rather than an all or nothing effect, so that say a primate will be more conscious than a dog, then surely individual differences between people will mean than some people are more conscious than others. For instance compared to us a dog's reality may seem 'dreamlike'. I like to think a lot, using abstract thought and ideas. I wonder if serves to increases my consciousness, my awareness? If so am i more conscious than someone who never thinks outside their own small life? Does this explain why many people appear to show 'ant-like' predictability and unawareness in their behaviour? This is not meant as arrogance it is merely an observation that some people seem oblivious to much of the world, avoiding the effort of thinking wherever possible.

Spaces
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Posted 04/07/03 - 06:12 PM:	#2
Would not this forum with it's variety of differences and for that matter the Internet and by extension all forms of media and so on be considered the nature of consciousness? Individual differences may be necessary but it's a necessity qualified by particulars. I know something that you don't and you will know something that I don't. Gather some around you who are in accord with your "knowledge" and you may feel your premise to be a more valid proposition due to external reinforcement thus to the point of what can be effected in the external field. That field is what some will align themselves to in matters of reality. Some do it alone. Abstract thoughts and ideas may not necessarily be the province of humans exclusively. The ant's demeanor from a human's point of view is apparently a very rudimentary one compared to the varied display that we are capable of but we really don't have a clue as to what its regard of the situation (field) entails. Multiply this by all the other species of insects and on to the animal and then to the human and you've got quite a mosaic on your hands. A piece of that mosaic may be "small" and not exhibit what we'd ordinarily consider as advanced qualities or properties but if we consider a continuum of ever-increasing awareness then we also have to consider that our position may also be small somewhere else. It may be "relative" but in the apex of an experience there is usually little time for the leisure of pondering alternative approaches. You can, but it'll be one of those red-wire, blue-wire scenarios. People may well be oblivious to "the world" but they're not oblivious to the world that each one constantly carries on his or her back day in and day out. That world is obliviated only when they no longer exist. If your sliding scale is shaped and marked to be held by your hand and seen by your eyes that's perfectly reasonable. But if that sliding scale seems like it can slide into the unknown distance then we've got some issues to deal with. Ask yourself, as things stand now and however you interpret "now", would you prefer that scale to keep on sliding or do you want it to stop at the point where it fits your hand? Personally, may it slide on and if I can get a ride on it then even better. Spaces

Brad
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Posted 04/07/03 - 06:57 PM:	#3
Why stop at people? You are more conscious when writing this then when you are sleeping as is the. The 'ant-like' person is more conscious than you when you were six months old. Why assume a steady state at the individual level. Why not say that conscious states are always in flux?

Ever
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Posted 04/08/03 - 01:56 AM:	#4
I like the idea of consciousness being in flux in the individual. For example are you as conscious when immersed a film or watching t.v? I believe the film is effectively acting as the conscious part of the brain, which would explain why these media are so engrossing and enjoyable. The film does the conscious thinking part, limiting the brain to a more less conscious emotional response.

Vecsus
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Posted 04/08/03 - 09:04 AM:	#5
Ever just sit and totally zone out? Ever have that feeling that you are "in the zone" at work? Same person but two drasticly different states of consciousness. I think it ebbs and flows throughout the day based on a variety of influences (sleep, diet, volume, etc). I also agree that from person to person there is a wide array of consciousness levels. We've all run into the "mouth-breathers" of the world, the people that seem to lack any intelligence beyond what it takes to put on their clothes. Compare those people to the writers, composers, and artists of the world and you have to admit there is a difference. Same biological composition but very different output. I think we all have a base level of consciousness which helps us deal with the necessary portions of live (eating, hygine, etc). Beyond that base level we each have our own level of consciousness which determines our lot in life.

gaughanarama
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Posted 04/09/03 - 07:40 AM:	#6
Levels of Consciousness may vary, but self consciousness can only exist in one form, Hegel presented it as the Unhappy Consciousness.Its been reqorked a little bit, but here it is. Human Consciousness is composed of two Consciousness, Consciousness, or Awareness, and Self-Consciousness, or Sentience. These two consciousnesses are simply different forms of sensory awareness, one targeted within the mind, one without. The first consciousness, Awareness, is sensory awareness, and is the flow of stimuli coming into the mind, via the 5 senses, Smel, Taste, Touch, Hearing, and Sight. This flow of data, via the initial consciousness, is awareness or sensory awareness( viz. awareness via the 5 senses). Awareness allows an organism to be aware and react to stimuli, like a dog chasing a duck, or a bird flying in a flock. The problem with that for of consciousness is where its targeted, outward. Since this form of consciousness deals only with outward stimuli, the dog, or bird is not aware of themselves, since there is no sense targeted at them, within themselves. Animals see things and react, their no aware of themselves as reacting, they have no conceptualiztion of identity. Man though possess a secondary awareness, one targeted inward. This consciousness directed inward is targeted at the inflow of date via Awareness, or sensory awareness. This secondary awareness has a sense by which it senses this incoming stream of sensory awareness, called Reason. Reason is the 6th and mental sense, by which man becomes aware of himself. Identity is a product of awareness, and an individual defines themselves as their vantage of awareness. How does the indivdual know the world? By their senses and it is at the pint of sight, that we recognize the physical identity. The self, or Psyche, is generally, in the head right behind the eyes. Since this is where we see from this is where we designate the Psyche to be. C I / I / I B / -----A------------------------------------ I I I A here is the stream of sensory awareness, the first form of consciousness. B is the eyes, the point where, generally, the individual recognizes the self to be. Within the head, and starting with the eyes. C is the secondary awareness, Reason, targeted at the first consciousness. This produces a secondary vantage point from which the "I" of ego reigns. Psyche begins, in the mind, where the world ends, and generaly that ends with the sense of sight. The ego Begins where the second sensory awareness ends, reason. That is C. In order for an individual to think of themselves,they have to think in terms of I, or ego. This applies to thought as well . Every individual hears their own monologue. This means this monologue isn't consciousness, or Reason, as reason is simply being aware. Since thought isn't awareness, but a process which one can be aware of, one can notate this internally targeted consciousness, Sentience. Thought is like a hand, I can look down, and see my hand, and know it is a part of myself, but not a part of my mind. This is due to the locationof psyche. The psyche is the mental world which begins where the physical ends, behind the senses. As I am aware of my arm, via sensory information, Psyche is located at the end of the senses, and the arm, being sensed is outside the sense, thus not a part of Pysche. The though pattern is also decribed in this way. The Ego, the I is the furthest vantage point into the mind, anything beyond that is unsensible, and that which is undsensible is unconscious. Thought is conscious. The ego is the vantage point where Reason ends. If I can be aware of thought then it is by the sense of Reason. If I can be aware of thought by reason, and ego is the point where reason ends, as a stream of information, then thought isn't a part of ego. Thought is like the hand of the Psyche. This secondary consciousness, Sentience, and Reason, is what animals lack. They can be aware, but not aware that they are aware. That is the boundary between humans and animals. In terms of Man though, some individuals may be more conscious of consciousness than others. Some might never become aware that they are aware for more then a moment, buit others could continually be aware of their awareness. These secondary individuals are cumulatively aware of their awareness as well as aware of the material world, where the individual who is only aware is only aware of the material world. The latter person, utilizes a larger area to be aware of, thus they are more Aware, as by quantity. Over the course of the day, awareness may, and does fluctuate, depending on the situation. Dreams are a whole other topic.

gaughanarama
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Posted 04/09/03 - 07:41 AM:	#7
sorry the image messed up

mickyhowells
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Posted 04/09/03 - 10:32 PM:	#8
What about people who we might consider insane, who are in a completely different world, as in they see everything differently, what level of consciousness would they have, or are we all insane and they see the world the right way around?

Spaces
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Posted 04/12/03 - 09:16 AM:	#9
A relevant question, Micky. Though maybe not intended, the last sentence in gaughanarama's topic gives one port of entry to answers about that: Dreams. Careful though, you might end up in some strange places very far away from this forum. LOL. Spaces

gaughanarama
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Posted 04/12/03 - 09:15 PM:	#10
You are very right. A knowledge of Hegel is fairly valuable in dealing with Dreams, and its applications on consciousness and Sentience. Sentience, or Self-consciousness is created by a dichotomy of consciousnesses within the mind, one targeted outward, one targeted at the other. Self-awareness is the secondary consciousness, and is the "I" when people talk, the epitome of the Self. Anything beyond that in the mind is unconscious. Hegel develops the concept of the Unhappy Consciousness in his "Phenomenology of Spirit", in it he claims consciousness can only exist where it can contradict itslef in relation to something else. This secondary "else" if something is sensory consciousness, or awareness. The Primary consciousness, is sentience. As individuals come to fall asleep. The processes for sensory perception shut down as the body goes into a mode where it can rest. Awareness, when targeted at the senses then, also gets shut off. Once this Awareness gets turned off, Sentience can no longer be Sentience, since Sentience is sensory consciousness targeted at sensory consciousness. Once Sentience loses a secondary sensory consciousness, Awareness from which to target at, Sentience becomes Awareness. When one is only Aware, one cannot be self-Aware, this requires dual consciousness. In a uniconscious state, only Awareness can exist. This is the mentality of animals, and most dreamers. In a dream, you're aware, and can perceive the dream matter. But you're not aware that you're a dreamer with a fully conscious life, and are about to wake up from this dream. This is whow an animal, and infants go through their existence, being aware, but not bewing aware of their being aware. The subroutines which activate, and are manifest in dreaming are a whole other story. This secondary awareness, which when awake becomes Sentience, but while dreaming becomes resigned to Awareness, seems to derail attempts to shut it off with simple awareness. Thus Awareness can come to perceive the actions of the unconscious mind, by means of symbols. It becomes detached, not targeted at any specifc point, and can focus on the unconscious. A lucid dream is where the secondary consciousness, Awareness, becomes focused upon a mental image or structure. Once this occurs, and can be maintained, the primary consciousness, Sentience, can maintain itself after the senses shut down, because Awareness has become dissassociated from them, and focused inward. Since Awareness is maintained on a nonsensual element, or thought, once the senses shut down, Awareness maintains itself. If Awareness can maintain itself, then so can Sentience, and one can be Aware of themselves, maintain Sentience in dreams.

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