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The "name that fallacy" thread
Can you identify these fallacies?

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The "name that fallacy" thread
kamaleon
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Posted 10/27/08 - 02:06 AM:
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#11
Erm... at the same time, the wikipedia articles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_The_Children_(politics)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Support_our_troops

seem to say that isolated phrases (or slogans) even when used on their own are fallacies?
Postmodern Beatnik
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Posted 10/27/08 - 06:37 AM:
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#12
kamaleon wrote:
Erm... at the same time, the wikipedia articles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_The_Children_(politics)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Support_our_troops

seem to say that isolated phrases (or slogans) even when used on their own are fallacies?
If Wikipedia said that, it would be wrong. Now, the word "fallacy" does not appear in the "Support our troops" article; however, it does appear in the "For the children (politics)" article:

From Wikipedia:
The phrase "for the children", or "think of the children," is an appeal to emotion and can be used to support an irrelevant conclusion (both logical fallacies) when used in an argument.
There are two ways to read this sentence. The first says that the phrase "for the children" is an appeal to emotion when used in an argument and that said appeal can be used to fallaciously support an irrelevant conclusion (or non sequitur). This would be true. The other way to read the sentence is to say that the mere phrase itself is an appeal to emotion and is a fallacy on its own. This would be false. It all depends on what we take the scope of the all-important bolded phrase to be, which should probably be made clearer in the article.

The important thing to note is that there may be perfectly rational uses of the phrases you mention. To take one example: vegans advocate an extreme change in the average American diet, and in that sense they are extremists. So long as we do not allow that fact to distort our analysis of any arguments they may give or conclusions they may draw, and so long as we do not try to use that fact to distort the perceptions of other people, there is no problem.

"It is not a mistake to have strong views. The mistake is to have nothing else." --Anthony Weston

"If you can't imagine how anyone could hold the view you are attacking, you just don't understand it yet." --Anthony Weston
kamaleon
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Posted 10/27/08 - 07:11 AM:
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#13
Postmodern Beatnik wrote:
If Wikipedia said that, it would be wrong. Now, the word "fallacy" does not appear in the "Support our troops" article


You are right, I'm sorry, I was directed to those two articles from the article on appeal to emotion (scroll down to the Example section) where it's implied that "Support our troops" is a fallacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion
From Wikipedia:
The phrase "for the children", or "think of the children," is an appeal to emotion and can be used to support an irrelevant conclusion (both logical fallacies) when used in an argument.
There are two ways to read this sentence. The first says that the phrase "for the children" is an appeal to emotion when used in an argument and that said appeal can be used to fallaciously support an irrelevant conclusion (or non sequitur). This would be true. The other way to read the sentence is to say that the mere phrase itself is an appeal to emotion and is a fallacy on its own. This would be false. It all depends on what we take the scope of the all-important bolded phrase to be, which should probably be made clearer in the article.


Yes, I agree with you.

The important thing to note is that there may be perfectly rational uses of the phrases you mention. To take one example: vegans advocate an extreme change in the average American diet, and in that sense they are extremists. So long as we do not allow that fact to distort our analysis of any arguments they may give or conclusions they may draw, and so long as we do not try to use that fact to distort the perceptions of other people, there is no problem.


Yes, absolutely, when taken litteraly those terms can be accurate and have no intrinsic pejorative value, and you are ever so right to stress that out. The same can be said about fundamentalism, intolerance, radicalism, etc. But what I was refferring to was probably the case for the appeal to emotion in the sense that those terms have such negative conotations in common-sense language that they are used disparingly to create a bad picture.
Postmodern Beatnik
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Posted 11/03/08 - 09:49 AM:
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#14
kamaleon wrote:
You are right, I'm sorry, I was directed to those two articles from the article on appeal to emotion (scroll down to the Example section) where it's implied that "Support our troops" is a fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion
Hey, no problem. In fact, it's good to see when Wikipedia misleads people, because it gives me things to change. And looking at the article, I can easily see how you would come away with the impression that you did.

kamaleon wrote:
But what I was referring to was probably the case for the appeal to emotion in the sense that those terms have such negative connotations in common-sense language that they are used disparagingly to create a bad picture.
Quite right. Indeed, some terms are probably so laden with emotional and/or political baggage that even non-fallacious uses of them are bound to arouse controversy. It's like elementary school, when one kid behaving poorly could get recess canceled for everyone. wink

"It is not a mistake to have strong views. The mistake is to have nothing else." --Anthony Weston

"If you can't imagine how anyone could hold the view you are attacking, you just don't understand it yet." --Anthony Weston
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