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The Myth of Sisyphus and the Meaning of Life
How would one alter the fate of Sisyphus to give his life meaning?

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The Myth of Sisyphus and the Meaning of Life

Barnaby_Luminance
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Posted 03/29/08 - 09:36 PM: Subject: The Myth of Sisyphus and the Meaning of Life	#1
Hello! I was inspired to write this thread after reading some other posts, and it essentially pertains to the meaning of life using the myth of Sisyphus as an analogy. For those who are unaware, Sisyphus was a Greek legend, who- after deceiving the Gods- was sentenced to pushing a boulder up a hill for the rest of eternity. When he would reach the top of the hill, the boulder would suddenly become too heavy, and he would have to start all over again (I know; a better analogy for human existence I find none ) I stumbled upon this question in a neat little book by Peter Singer, called "How are we to lvie? Ethics in an age of self-interest" where he calls upon philosophical interpretations of the myth in order to demonstrate the virtues of an ethical life. The question, conceived by Richard Taylor, is as follows: "In what way would the fate of Sisyphus need to be altered, in order to give his life meaning?" Personally, I take a subjective approach, and believe that simply installing a profound desire for pushing boulders repeatedly up hills would be enough to give his life meaning; however, I can also understand why something more objective, like the ability to build a temple out of all the boulders, may be considered the defintive way of giving his life meaning. Whatever it is, there's certainly some food for thought here, and I'd be interesting to see what other people think: post away! (More information on Sisyphus here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus )

Prime_Mover
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Posted 03/29/08 - 11:32 PM:	#2
When I first began my philosophical hijinx many years ago, I remember the "meaning of life" being a central concern. But it didn't take long for me to find hope in Wittgenstein; basically, the question (or the statement) of "meaning of life" is essentially meaningless, simply because "meaning of x" is a term in life usually conveying something regarding the consequences of x or that which should be noted regarding x. So when "life" is used as "x" in the term "meaning of x", the statement becomes nonsensical (self-referring), or would simply refer to the obvious fact that the condition of life is essential for having meaning (in life). Only the things in life can have meaning, not life itself. The first step, therefore, is to abandon this concern over the "meaning of life" to avoid the anxiety it poses. Instead, one must follow Sartre's model of the absurd hero, defiant in the face of meaninglessness. Unless you are religious, you are completely free to do with yourself as you wish: chase after crazy pursuits, take up dangerous hobbies, whatever. Without objective meaning, independent of the context of the meanings of the things within one's life, life is but a roller-coaster ride that starts of slow, ideally goes through a few exhilarating loops, and then ends at the grave.

Mike H
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Posted 03/30/08 - 02:38 AM:	#3
What is the meaning of a "meaningful" life? It seems to me that a meaningful life is one that has some sort of external significance - it has an impact on other lives, or on objective reality. This would mean that Sisyphus could never have a meaningful life just rolling that rock forever. His action does not affect anyone's life, positively or negatively, and any impact on the world itself is only temporary, as the rock rolls back to its original position every time sisyphus pushes it up the hill. It would not be enough to instill in Sisyphus a strong desire to roll the rock up the hill - this would have no implications on the external significance of its life, only its internal significance. But internal significance isn't enough to a give a life meaning - people who complain that their lives lack meaning are able to experience pleasure, and often do so. What they do is internally significant - they obtain pleasure for themselves. What concerns them is that pleasure is not enough - their lives feel empty without being externally directed. When Camus used the example of Sisyphus in relation to the meaning of life, I think his point was that life is fundamentally like SIsyphus rolling the rock up the hill. No matter what we do in life, everything will eventually turns to dust. All of our accomplishments have only a temporary effect on the outside world - even if you build the greatest thing ever conceived, given enough time, all trace of it will be gone. As for impact on other people's lives - well eventually they die, and so what impact did you have in the end anyway? The rock rolls back down the hill. The only thing that could give Sisyphus' life meaning is if the rock didn't roll back - if he could achieve some lasting effect. I'm not as pessimistic as Camus (or at least my probably inaccurate portrayal of him) - I think life can have meaning with only temporary external effects. Though I can't really explain why I think that.

Epilogas
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Posted 03/30/08 - 04:29 AM:	#4
Barnaby_Luminance wrote: "In what way would the fate of Sisyphus need to be altered, in order to give his life meaning?" Sisyphus should lose foreversightedness. Mike H wrote: When Camus used the example of Sisyphus in relation to the meaning of life, I think his point was that life is fundamentally like SIsyphus rolling the rock up the hill. No matter what we do in life, everything will eventually turns to dust. All of our accomplishments have only a temporary effect on the outside world - even if you build the greatest thing ever conceived, given enough time, all trace of it will be gone. As for impact on other people's lives - well eventually they die, and so what impact did you have in the end anyway? The rock rolls back down the hill. The only thing that could give Sisyphus' life meaning is if the rock didn't roll back - if he could achieve some lasting effect. I'm not as pessimistic as Camus (or at least my probably inaccurate portrayal of him) - I think life can have meaning with only temporary external effects. Though I can't really explain why I think that. Meaningfullness/ meaninglesness is a state of mind. External effects influence, but not determine, the state mind is in, at any given moment. If you want your achievement to be eternal, you don't know what you want. Simply becouse you can't grasp one property of your achievement, let alone the whole achievement. Forever brings resignation, temporality brings disapointment, timelessness brings joy.

unenlightened
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Posted 03/30/08 - 08:41 AM:	#5
Barnaby_Luminance wrote: The question, conceived by Richard Taylor, is as follows: "In what way would the fate of Sisyphus need to be altered, in order to give his life meaning?" Let's change the rock into a young child, and the hill into a helter-skelter.
The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

Dan C
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Posted 03/30/08 - 08:46 PM: Subject: Camus	#6
Hello Everyone, I'm new to these forums, the discussion on Camus really sparked my interest to join. But anyways, from what I have read and gotten from Camus is not so bleak or pessimistic. Camus refers to the moment after Sisyphus has rolled a stone up the hill and is returning down to fetch another as the moment of complete lucidity. He realizes his fate and the hopelessness of the situation and from there rises above it. Camus maintains the realization of this, the absurd, is directly related to happiness. When one realizes the absurdity of their situation that person becomes truly free. To me, at least, reading Camus has provided a fresh perspective on life and in a lot of ways I have become much happier because of it.

Individual
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Posted 03/31/08 - 05:56 AM:	#7
Barnaby_Luminance wrote: Hello! I was inspired to write this thread after reading some other posts, and it essentially pertains to the meaning of life using the myth of Sisyphus as an analogy. For those who are unaware, Sisyphus was a Greek legend, who- after deceiving the Gods- was sentenced to pushing a boulder up a hill for the rest of eternity. When he would reach the top of the hill, the boulder would suddenly become too heavy, and he would have to start all over again (I know; a better analogy for human existence I find none ) I stumbled upon this question in a neat little book by Peter Singer, called "How are we to lvie? Ethics in an age of self-interest" where he calls upon philosophical interpretations of the myth in order to demonstrate the virtues of an ethical life. The question, conceived by Richard Taylor, is as follows: "In what way would the fate of Sisyphus need to be altered, in order to give his life meaning?" Personally, I take a subjective approach, and believe that simply installing a profound desire for pushing boulders repeatedly up hills would be enough to give his life meaning; however, I can also understand why something more objective, like the ability to build a temple out of all the boulders, may be considered the defintive way of giving his life meaning. Whatever it is, there's certainly some food for thought here, and I'd be interesting to see what other people think: post away! (More information on Sisyphus here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus ) Sisyphus' story doesn't need to be altered in any way. Sisyphus succeeded in placing the rock on the hill, permanently, thus overcoming the gods and escaping hell. We don't see this from our own flawed perspectives, so a fool simply sees, "He pushes the rock up a hill again and again, trapped in hell forever." That's a distortion of the true story of Sisyphus. The world is like a stone we push on top of the hill and the hill is our principles, upon which the world stands. Through endless vigilance, we achieve the seemingly impossible, even if from an outside perspective, our actions are meaningless.

Barnaby_Luminance
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Posted 03/31/08 - 10:00 PM:	#8
Hey, good replies! I wasn't really here for an arugment, more interested in listening to what other people had to say. Well, reading what other people had to write I'm particularly interested in that Wittgenstein statement regarding the meaning of life; I think I might go research that a bit more. Wikipedia here I come!

swstephe
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Posted 04/01/08 - 01:12 AM:	#9
Give him "anterograde amnesia", like that guy, (Guy Pearce), from the movie Memento. Every day, he thinks it is the first time he ever pushed that bolder up the hill, and despite his failure, able to imagine his near success a good indicator of eventual success in the future -- thus being permanently satisfied with the near-accomplishment of the goal. Zeus could have made a much worse punishment -- that he gets the rock to the top of the hill, it is fixed there permanently and nothing else happens for the rest of eternity. Sysiphus might end up frustrated for the good-old rock-rolling days when there was some reason to get out of bed then.
Ethics is the measuring of morality. Morality is the measuring of good. Good is the measuring of benefit. Benefit is the measure of values.

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Posted 04/02/08 - 01:35 AM:	#10
Dan C wrote: Hello Everyone, I'm new to these forums, the discussion on Camus really sparked my interest to join. But anyways, from what I have read and gotten from Camus is not so bleak or pessimistic. Camus refers to the moment after Sisyphus has rolled a stone up the hill and is returning down to fetch another as the moment of complete lucidity. He realizes his fate and the hopelessness of the situation and from there rises above it. Camus maintains the realization of this, the absurd, is directly related to happiness. When one realizes the absurdity of their situation that person becomes truly free. To me, at least, reading Camus has provided a fresh perspective on life and in a lot of ways I have become much happier because of it. Just to reinforce the above point...Camus knows that absurdity is contingent upon man himself and writes: "…There is no sun without shadow, and it is essential to know the night…I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! … But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. … Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy" (Camus, 2005, 119).

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