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The meaning of Time

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The meaning of Time

ManiacJack
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Posted 09/07/08 - 12:48 PM:	#51
vykk_draygo wrote: This is for you, ManiacJack. However, I invite all of you to watch this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4280922161474483340 It roughly describes the basics of string theory in layman's terms. Pretty interesting stuff. Go Tesseract! 'Twas cool; but I still have some reservations against it. Only Causality [ie one way time] would lead to notions of points [zero] and infinites [universe]; I respectfully find this to be a misrepresentation of Einstein. Only the "desired perspective" would describe things as such [ala cartesian plane] rather than as they are [whole and complete]. Space is bound to mass and mass is limited; our "infinity" is bounded. I see most science regard this complete [=1] as something otherwise [=0 or =oo], and for the life of me cannot bear to think that Newton is being ushered over Einstein before Einstein has successfully been accounted for. The cartesian plane is wrong, and that is why Einstein said there was no ideal perspective... and why we must look at the whole thing. It seems that clinging onto the ideal perspective would lead to said "eventualities". I prefer correlation: that is we go around the universe; it does not go around us. Thank you for the link, though; I have been looking for some sort of sensible production of multidimensional theory. The movie does note that it is not to be regarded as an accurate account of string theory, so I'll keep that in mind. Most of my friends just say [essentially]: That's what they "say" For the time being, I find it prudent to be skeptical- in light of all the competing theories. I just find it ironic that after Relativity more complex theories of causal absolutes come into the field.
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Cugoano
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Posted 09/07/08 - 02:42 PM:	#52
Time is a convention for measuring reality that has universal meaning and thus universal usefulness. Our minds are preset to understand a time sence (Kantian catagory)and we live by it. It exists in its usefulness for structuring the activities of man so we can talk about our subjective experience of beforeness, afterness, and whenness. It is embedded in our cognitive experience of reality. It exists outside of physical space(unless in the future we discover a time neuron in our brain),but it exists nonetheless. Universalmeaningfulness+Universalagreement+Universalusefulness+Univeral characteristic of reality = something that exists. Time meets these criteria for existence. I am open to an example of reality without a time dimension.

vykk_draygo
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Posted 09/08/08 - 07:12 AM:	#53
Well, I certainly don't take it as the absolute truth. It makes sense, though. First off, causality doesn't exclusively imply a notion of points and infinites. Points and lines are just simplified abstracts of real world events. In fact, in my mind this view strengthens my view of cyclical continuity. If all dimensions are "joined" (i.e. condensed into one point) in what we would percieve as the 10th dimension, does that not suggest true infinity? Why should everything just stop once we reach that level? (Or maybe I'm not reading your idea of causality right?) All things considered, I'm really not much of an Einstein buff. I have only a rudimentary understanding of relativity.
"But are not the dreams of poets and the tales of travellers notoriously false?" H.P. Lovecraft

ManiacJack
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Posted 09/08/08 - 09:17 AM:	#54
To Cugoano: Why/how/when does time exist outside physical space? vykk_draygo wrote: Well, I certainly don't take it as the absolute truth. It makes sense, though. Sure, but I can't quite put my thumb on my notion of the fallacy therin: Can we really understand 11 dimensions when we cannot accurately account for the 4th? Maybe I am wrong on this, that we do account for time accurately. I feel like flipping a coin. First off, causality doesn't exclusively imply a notion of points and infinites. Sure, but that is how we got them- using causality. Causality Implied the zero and the infinite. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, in my mind this view strengthens my view of cyclical continuity. That is what I call correlation... or... what was used to achieve GR. And yes, I agree; understanding Causality is a requirement of understanding Correlation. If all dimensions are "joined" (i.e. condensed into one point) in what we would percieve as the 10th dimension, does that not suggest true infinity? Why should everything just stop once we reach that level? (Or maybe I'm not reading your idea of causality right?) The question is, "Why does it stop?" I liken the maxim that When we Assume, it makes an ass* out of u and me.* I think this string theory is a causal assumption. All things considered, I'm really not much of an Einstein buff. I have only a rudimentary understanding of relativity. Aren't we all. That would be the essense of this predicament.
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Cugoano
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Posted 09/08/08 - 05:36 PM: Subject: [quote=ManiacJack]To Cugoano: Why/how/when does time exist outside physical space?	#55
[quote=ManiacJack]To Cugoano: Why/how/when does time exist outside physical space? Time is a convention it has no physical properties so it does not take up space.

vykk_draygo
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Posted 09/08/08 - 06:38 PM:	#56
Assumptions must be made in discussing something as incomprehensibly hard to grasp as time. We can't accurately account for the 4th dimension because we're working with theoretical information, not empirical.
"But are not the dreams of poets and the tales of travellers notoriously false?" H.P. Lovecraft

ManiacJack
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Posted 09/08/08 - 07:02 PM:	#57
vykk_draygo wrote: Assumptions must be made in discussing something as incomprehensibly hard to grasp as time. We can't accurately account for the 4th dimension because we're working with theoretical information, not empirical. Agreed. In fact I don't think we actually disagree about much but particulars of incomplete theories. But you said on another thread you don't subscribe to a multiverse. Isn't that more or less what is entailed in string theory? Or have I been reading too much Crichton? But anywase, I don't seek to discredit String; I just ponder as to what theoretical theory is most Real. No biggies as far as I can tell.
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vykk_draygo
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Posted 09/08/08 - 07:54 PM:	#58
Yes, but the way I define "universe" necessitates there being only one. It's really all in the label. String theory seems most Real to me, since it makes the most sense. Although I did once have a heated debate with a friend of mine who legitimately proved to me that time doesnt exist. I can't for the life of me remember how he did it, but needless to say I was flabbergasted. In any case, I still stick to my beliefs.
"But are not the dreams of poets and the tales of travellers notoriously false?" H.P. Lovecraft

Mech
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Posted 09/08/08 - 08:53 PM:	#59
Cugoano wrote: Time is a convention it has no physical properties so it does not take up space. Hence why it doesn't exist. It is merely a numerical value we place on it to associate our activities around and explain other phenomenon we see in existence within reality. This is how I look at time: it is a law we all accept and are designed around to follow - when to sleep, when we reach certain maturity stages, seasons.. These are all reasons for us to place some numerical increments on theses phenomenons around us. If we didn't have time as a law how would we explain aging or how things go through stages in development? We use time to break down infinite duration to simplify observations so we can comprehend them. Concept of time.
Realism.

Cugoano
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Posted 09/09/08 - 07:39 PM:	#60
[quote=Mech] Hence why it doesn't exist. It is merely a numerical value we place on it to associate our activities around and explain other phenomenon we see in existence within reality. If it is part of our reality it exists. Can you imagine our reality without it?

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