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The intrinsic worth of persons and our duty to society
Libertarians are selfish b******s

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The intrinsic worth of persons and our duty to society

keda
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Posted 04/30/08 - 09:15 AM:	#151
cortes wrote: I don't see how you can honestly defend this. By what measure is a capitalist society more equal than a socialist one? (Certainly it is true that socialism requires big government which requires politicians who become very powerful indeed but for the most part, poverty is shared equally.) Well among the poor of course there will be equality, but the wealth will be less spread out than in capitalism, in which everyone has a chance to get climb. In any case that was not the sense I meant, I meant we are all equal before the law, as opposed to in socialism which is partisan. Still, everyone should realize that a society where one entity parasiting on another is simply not stable, but all wealth ultimately ends up in the wrong hands. One reason I love capitalism and hate socialism is that in the former I can indulge my aggressive and acquisitive nature in a positive sum manner whereas in the later I would have to choose between becoming a sheep and playing hardball politics (which in many cases means dealing in death). True. There are not much options in socialism, but as it has been said, rather dead than red. The analogy I like to offer is this: if marriage were banned I would be forced to choose between abstinence and fornication (or killing the enforcers of the law). I prefer that marriage be allowed. This is essentially Rand's argument and it is a reasonable one but it really is a long-term argument. It seems inevitalbe that North Korea will go the way of East Germany but it has taken decades to get where they are today and it may take decaades more before it finally collapes in ruin. For more moderate socialist societies it is an even slower bleed. You have a point there. Incrementalism is the trick being pulled. It's the same reason the concept of marriage is under attack, because people are so selfish they can't think beyond their own generation. In such cases pragmatic arguments have not much pull, but one must rely on moral arguments. This is why the best solution to socialism is emmigration and why the character of immigrants to America is always very different from those they left behind. The current problem is globalism, and since the world government will be socialist there is nowhere to run.
_____________________ Free Europe Now The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. -Benjamin Franklin If my sons did not want wars, there would be none - Gutle Rothschild It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes - Josef Stalin Sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace - Bob Dylan A prolonged peace favours the predominance of a mere commercial spirit, and with it a debasing self-interest, cowardice, and effeminacy, and tends to degrade the character of the nation. - Immanuel Kant

cortes
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Posted 04/30/08 - 09:55 AM:	#152
keda wrote: Well among the poor of course there will be equality, but the wealth will be less spread out than in capitalism, in which everyone has a chance to get climb. In any case that was not the sense I meant, I meant we are all equal before the law, as opposed to in socialism which is partisan. Still, everyone should realize that a society where one entity parasiting on another is simply not stable, but all wealth ultimately ends up in the wrong hands. I think you are wrong on the former (again, setting aside the power of politicians), but agree on the later. And these are two sides of the same coin. Socialism requires a central power to act unequally in order to force equality precisely because equality is unnatural. You are either for equality under the law or for equality of condition, but you can't be for both. keda wrote: True. There are not much options in socialism, but as it has been said, rather dead than red. No, this is wrong. Your options may be ugly but they are there. My first choice would be emmigration but, personally, I would probably choose violence over living under the more extreme forms of socialism if emmigration were not an option. keda wrote: You have a point there. Incrementalism is the trick being pulled. It's the same reason the concept of marriage is under attack, because people are so selfish they can't think beyond their own generation. In such cases pragmatic arguments have not much pull, but one must rely on moral arguments. "Selfish" his not the right word here. People who do drugs are not being selfish, they are being self-destructive. But you can't argue with a drug addict, it's a waste of time. Now socialism is worse than a drug since is drags an entire society down but that's why the best response is emmigration. keda wrote: The current problem is globalism, and since the world government will be socialist there is nowhere to run. Actually, depending on what you mean by the word, globalism can work against socialism provided the United Nations remains weak. (and has it ever been a bigger joke than it is today?) Vote with your feet. Your children and grandchildren will thank you.
_____________________ Copyright (c) 2008 Hernan Cortes, Sociedad de los Conquistadores. cortes@conquistador.org http://www.conquistador.org

keda
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Posted 04/30/08 - 10:30 AM:	#153
Well... there is but one free country, and its called The Republic of Lakotah. Hope it lasts. Btw, here is something you may find useful: http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Pl...
_____________________ Free Europe Now The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. -Benjamin Franklin If my sons did not want wars, there would be none - Gutle Rothschild It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes - Josef Stalin Sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace - Bob Dylan A prolonged peace favours the predominance of a mere commercial spirit, and with it a debasing self-interest, cowardice, and effeminacy, and tends to degrade the character of the nation. - Immanuel Kant

keda
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Posted 04/30/08 - 10:42 AM:	#154
Another tip: Turn off your TV, and start googling, while the internet is still up. Its to be replaced soon with internet 2, completely censored.
_____________________ Free Europe Now The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. -Benjamin Franklin If my sons did not want wars, there would be none - Gutle Rothschild It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes - Josef Stalin Sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace - Bob Dylan A prolonged peace favours the predominance of a mere commercial spirit, and with it a debasing self-interest, cowardice, and effeminacy, and tends to degrade the character of the nation. - Immanuel Kant

Thoughtless
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Posted 05/01/08 - 12:48 PM:	#155
keda wrote: Another tip: Turn off your TV, and start googling, while the internet is still up. Its to be replaced soon with internet 2, completely censored. Are you referring to Net Neutrality, or something else?
_____________________ You down with OPP(Original Poster's Prerogative)?

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