the importance of expression: Philosophy Forums

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the importance of expression

zio
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Posted 06/04/09 - 12:50 AM: Subject: the importance of expression	#1
What I argue is that for something to exist it must exert cause, a reaction...for every action there is a reaction. Not limited to personal perception. If something happened without your knowing it does not mean that it did not occur, unless it was imperceptible to anyone or anything. For humans in order to claim a belief as truth it must exist outside of itself. I think that's why the church excommunicated everyone, for a claim without validation holds no ground on which to exist, although it it did not go unheard by everyone. That's why art in whichever manner and light is observed holds that importance, as the means of affirmation to an existence.

imoet
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Posted 06/13/09 - 11:55 PM:	#2
do you mean an expression itself won't exist without a reaction?

coalclear
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Posted 06/14/09 - 01:51 PM:	#3
I think you mean effect rather than cause in your first sentence?? And yes for every action (cause) there is a reaction (effect), even if the effect is nothing (that in itself is something). "Not limited to personal perception" Naturally nothing is limited to personal perception, your starting to want to ask the cliche philosophical question "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?" And your last notion "unless it was imperceptible to anyone or anything i believe is obscure because you say "anything". But what is a "thing"? it could be anything, from a forest to space to time. And even if a tree made a sound in pure nothingness, it would still make a sound. Which obviously makes me a believer of yes the tree does make a sound in the forest even if nothings there to hear it. Things that exist (a sound in an empty forest or a piece of artwork) are without a doubt expressions and causes of effects, no matter how small the effect on how small the amount.
"Submerge yourself into what you love so much that it becomes you." "The universe surrenders to your thoughts of it, that, is the ultimate power."

zio
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Posted 06/17/09 - 12:15 PM:	#4
imoet: yeah, to put in in my words expression comes through the act of living and that propagates reactions in of itself. I could assimilate the relevance of expression for humans to a bat's sonar. coalclear: am going to have to agree with you, I did try to stay away from that cliche, but cliches are cliches for a reason no?

DrifterOfTheSun
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Posted 06/20/09 - 12:04 AM:	#5
zio wrote: If something happened without your knowing it does not mean that it did not occur, unless it was imperceptible to anyone or anything. There is a law in philosophy that goes something like this: If it's beyond the reach of understanding of my brain, it doesnt exists. You see, if in this room there is no lamp, it doesn't means that that there is no lamp in this room, for it is in another layer of dimention. There is no god, for he is (I wouldn't use word "exists" here) out of space and time (If there is no space and time beyond the universe). So eather everything is (I still don't like the word "exists"), that has connection to something (even halucination) or only things that is is the one that doesn't depends on anthing and everything depends on the fact that it is, so nothing "is". So: If it's beyond the reach of understanding of my brain, it doesnt exists.
Before starting an argument, do some research, it might be proven it is right/wrong

zio
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Posted 06/22/09 - 08:21 AM:	#6
DrifterOfTheSun: What you say is something I've though about. I mean for something to be truly innovative it would have to exist outside of normal conventions. So it would be hard to understand, or to perceive at all, might as well not exist as you say. What I meant with that comment is that if It's imaginable the possibility is there. As I though about it more I've come to think of expression simply as life, and life leaves an imprint with each step. In regard to art, I see it as a record of that imprint.

Willowz
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Posted 06/22/09 - 09:56 AM:	#7
zio wrote: What I argue is that for something to exist it must exert cause, a reaction...for every action there is a reaction. Zio, you say that there is cause. What is that cause for it's existence, or why does the object want to cause?
This song will prepare you for a good smile.

DrifterOfTheSun
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Posted 06/23/09 - 04:47 AM:	#8
Willowz wrote: What is that cause for it's existence Do you mean: If there is a cause for everything than what is the cause for existence of cause? I think this is a proof of nihilism in materialism and maybe even Idealism. This was written boldly on "Nothing Is" thing but I never really went to that direction.
Before starting an argument, do some research, it might be proven it is right/wrong

zio
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Posted 06/23/09 - 05:47 AM:	#9
Willowz: I suppose I see cause as a property of an object, along with mass and dimension. Once something comes into being it occupies space and that is an effect?

Willowz
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Posted 06/23/09 - 12:44 PM:	#10
zio wrote: Willowz: I suppose I see cause as a property of an object, along with mass and dimension. Once something comes into being it occupies space and that is an effect? So the object's individual characteristics give it's cause for existence? If I understand correct, then you are with the idea of God...
This song will prepare you for a good smile.

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