The Human Body As Personal Property: Philosophy Forums

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The Human Body As Personal Property

The Human Body As Personal Property

~vince~
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Posted 05/26/09 - 05:36 AM: Subject: The Human Body As Personal Property	#1
Legally, a human body may be regarded as a type of property with some restrictions. In comparison, my automobile is my property and not someone else's. I have exclusive rights to driving it and no one else is allowed to drive (or even touch) my car without my express permission. It is similar with my body. Just as I'm not allowed to just start driving (or even touching) your car without your express permission, so also it is with your body. Your body is your legal property in your adult years, short of being appointed a legal guardian. I generally wouldn't suggest to most people that they follow the same course that I personally follow, simply because most people don't possess the same knowledge base of physiology that I do. For example, I drive a motorbike and I have the knowledge to drive it with relative safety. However, if anyone asks me if they should purchase a motorbike, I tell them 'no' because it's much too dangerous. Only if they had my same knowledge base would I suggest that they take such a risk. The same goes for my wholistic medical approach. I wouldn't recommend it to everybody in the context of a terminal health risk, simply because most people lack the knowledge and/or discipline that I have. I would instead send them to a modern western doctor. Furthermore, I don't want the responsibility if they fail after following my advice. Nonetheless, I'm content within myself for the choices which I make regarding my own body. Maybe one reason that the issue is important to me is because my brother and I had a disagreement over my mother's treatment when my mother passed away from cancer three years ago. My brother's view was to offer cancer treatments to my mother no matter what degree of physical torture that it would inflict, just to extend her life by an extra three months. Whereas, my view was just to let her live peacably, even if she lost three months. I believe that my brother wanted to keep my mother alive for an extra three months more for his comfort than for hers. I respect myself in my decision. I also respect others' perspectives regarding what decisions they would make for themselves, whether they might agree with my decisions or not. I can't really tell somebody else what to do with their own body, so long as it's not illegal. Just so long as they're not harming somebody else's body. - I am additionally hoping that cancer can be halted (and potentially reversed) through wholistic treatment at the younger age of 40 (which would not be necessarily true at age 80). There are many European countries outside of the United States where tumors are left within the body rather than removed. Tumors generally grow and shrink continuously on the microscopic levels. In the context of modern western medicine, the administration of cancer treatments are often in the best interests of doctors for the purpose of medical liability issues versus the actual beneficial outcome of the patient. What's medically best for the patient is not always legally best for the doctor, and the doctor comes first. The patient comes second. For example, if a patient has a brain tumor in many European countries, they just monitor it and leave it alone. If the tumor is cut into, then it becomes malignant when exposed to air. But it may simply become encapsulated and shrink if left alone. If the European doctor cuts into the tumor, thereby inciting excessive malignancy, the doctor can lose their license. But if the doctor refrains from administering treatment and the patient dies, then the doctor may simply be off the hook. However, it's the reverse in the United States. If a US doctor detects a benign brain tumor and fails to suggest surgery, the doctor will potentially lose their license, even if the patient lives. But if the doctor cuts into the benign brain tumor (thereby causing it to become malignant and thereby killing the patient), the doctor is then legally off the hook. It's largely a legal thing for the doctor. Unfortunately, medications aren't always functionally effective. I have more faith in my body's natural capacity for recovery (at the age of 40 with proper diet and exercise) than I do in various medications that offer no guarantee and may even damage the body severely. Of course, I might not necessarily say that the same course of action would be ideal for someone at the age of 80. I have more faith in my natural physiology (particularly at age 40) than I do in specific modern western medicine treatments in this specific context. - With modern western medicine (namely medications and surgery), treatments which may physically cure (albeit with a very low success rate yet high bodily torture) may also psychologically destroy, thereby inducing a negative placebo effect. Thus the misery of the treatments themselves may functionally kill me. Whereas, with ancient eastern medicine, having a positive psychological attitude and healthy lifestyle (without medications or surgery) can have a positive psychological effect that also affects the body. Hence, happy living may keep me alive. I know of a fellow who has been walking around with a tumor in his brain for the last five years because they couldn't extract the whole thing. And another friend who recovered from stage five liver cancer. They are both my age, living life functionally pain-free. Wholistic doctors say that cancer can sometimes be naturally encapsulated and afterward shrink down and disappear, whereas western doctors are typically more despairing. - I'm not excessively concerned over other people suffering over my potential death because I regard their suffering as somewhat minimal. A friend of mine died at the age of 42 for example. I cried once or twice for a week but I moved on. Since I don't have any close relatives, I don't expect a much more profound reaction than that from people. Actually, I'm still living and enjoying life as best I can. For example, I can now enjoy riding a motor scooter in the rain, whereas before I couldn't. I complain about fewer things than I did before, that most people regard as things to complain about. If it rains on my head, I now enjoy the sensation instead of running indoors. I value the quality of life over and above the quantity of years lived. I'd rather live a few years happy versus many years sad. The more ego attachment that I had placed on my life over years past, the more miserable they were. However, now I'm going out and enjoying life more than before, and I'm generally happier for it. I'm still following healthy wholistic methods to take care of myself, much like as was directed towards my mother. I'm eating healthier and exercising at the gym periodically. I just don't want the medications or machines that western medicine offers. The last twenty years of my life (from age 20 to 40) were already lived rather tortuously due to non-cancer illness. And the type of cancer isn't highly sucessfully treatable even at age 40. Some cancers are easily treatable at age 40 and some not so much so. I've simply weighed the pros and cons and therefore opted for what I believe is the greater good for me. My decision affects me more than it does other people. Some other people will be minorly inconvenienced, but they'll get over it in a week or two I suppose. I watched my mother die of cancer just three years ago, even moving into her home and acting as her caregiver. This allowed me to watch her painful deteriorization over a period of seven months firsthand. The modern western doctors basically sent her home without treatment after her diagnosis, saying that there was nothing that they could do. They just smiled at her and gave her pain pills, sending her home to die. They gave her six months and she died in seven. - I'm age 40 and have chosen to refrain from medical treatments for cancer. Please understand that I'm not asking the forum members for medical advice. I've already been counseled by my doctors to be medically treated for cancer. I've simply chosen not to be treated. I've made the decision not to be treated prior to joining this forum. I don't have family ties, so I don't feel a moral obligation to anyone else to be medically treated for cancer. Nor can I be legally mandated to receive treatment for cancer, insofar as it is my legal choice to be treated or not. I have no legal guardian appointed over me (at age 40) so the choice is entirely my own. I have never been judged to be incompetent, nor are there any impending judgments regarding incompetence. It would also be illegal for doctors to medically treat me for cancer without my signature on a medical liability release form. I've chosen not to sign any such form, so the doctors are not legally allowed to medically treat me. They've only offered advice thus far. The only way that a medical practitioner would be allowed to administer medical aid against my will is if I were to be found completely unconscious, although I could easily restrict medical treatments at the moment of reawakening.
~vince~ Don't confuse me with the facts.

Phroneo
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Posted 05/29/09 - 05:48 AM:	#2
I agree with your decision. Excuse my economics talk though. I do think your body is your property but as with all else, it is in my opinion right to consider how doing what you want to do affects others. You have already mentioned it but some people may be upset about you choosing to shorten your life time. In economics we'd call this an externality, a cost involuntarily imposed on a third party. However, if you die in 3 months or 6 months, friends and family would still have to deal with your death so the only difference is 3 extra months that you live. If living longer means your life is of less quality then to you that's fine, a net benefit perhaps. To them, it's 3 months that they will not see you. Since it is your last 3 months I'd say that it is of high value to you and you will be using 100% of it. I am quite sure no-one else will see you throughout the whole time and so even if they also value an additional 3 months of you highly, I think you'd need to be disappointing a lot of people to think about taking their preference into account. However, there is the issue of understanding your situation. I think that in such cases, people are selfish. Both ways but more so from their side since they are not fully taking into account the extra suffering you must go through in the extra 3 months that treatment may give you. They are also not fully accepting the benefits to them, of knowing you will have a better time before you die if you go with what you prefer. Not just because of you reasons but because you would be doing what you want. Another critical issue is that the people wanting you to be around an extra 3 months won't exactly be happy for an extra 3 months. It is just an attempt to delay the inevitable so I think that would actually negate most of the perceived benefits they have of you being around longer. I don't think it would be much fun to watch someone you care about wasting away at a slower pace and in greater discomfort.
"The life we receive is not short, but we make it so" ~Seneca

~vince~
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Posted 05/29/09 - 08:36 AM:	#3
Thanks for your reply. Actually, it was my mother who had three to six months left to live before she passed away from cancer. My own chances are somewhat better due to my younger age of 40, and I may live for several years yet. The odds are against my long-term survival, but I don't consider it completely hopeless. I'm more optimistic than my doctors, despite their grim assessments which they base upon statistical probability.
~vince~ Don't confuse me with the facts.

Phroneo
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Location: Melbourne

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Posted 05/29/09 - 09:20 AM:	#4
Oh ok. Sorry to ask but how long do you expect to live with and without treatment? Do you have good reason to doubt their statistics? Do you expect the cancer to go away (as in do you think there is a higher chance of this happening than not?). Are you fine with the average or even worst case outcomes? Seneca (I think) wrote that the worst thing we can do to people is assure that that "everything will be fine". We should instead think of the worst case scenario because upon imagining it, we will often realise that it is not as bad as we think. This way we can be prepared for the worst and perhaps even have a better chance of avoiding it, instead of being potentially surprised and unprepared when / if it arrives. A final question if I may, is if you think that there is some good in your situation? I am surely being naive but I always wondered whether being told you have little time left while you are still young would result in having a really amazing last few years. I have heard of people who say that they lived more in their final months or years than they had all their lives before cancer. It's very relative and people tend to highly discount the past and future but it is an interesting perspective. It is cliche but I think that people don't use their time and life properly. Most people seem comfortable working a majority of their youth away and leaving only old age, which is not guaranteed, for themselves. There's a letter by Seneca which I adore which really delves into this issue. Here's an excerpt if you like: Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-style-parent:""; font-size:11.0pt;"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-"Times New Roman";} The poet speaks to you about the day, and about this very day that is flying. Is there, then, any doubt that for hapless mortals, that is, for men who are engrossed, the fairest day is ever the first to flee? Old age surprises them while their minds are still childish, and they come to it unprepared and unarmed, for they have made no provision for it; they have stumbled upon it suddenly and unexpectedly, they did not notice that it was drawing nearer day by day. Even as conversation or reading or deep meditation on some subject beguiles the traveler, and he finds that he has reached the end of his journey before he was aware that he was approaching it, just so with this unceasing and most swift journey of life, which we make at the same pace whether waking or sleeping; those who are engrossed become aware of it only at the end.
"The life we receive is not short, but we make it so" ~Seneca

~vince~
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Joined: Apr 27, 2009

Total Topics: 15
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Posted 05/29/09 - 08:55 PM:	#5
Phroneo wrote: Sorry to ask but how long do you expect to live with and without treatment? Perhaps one to five years. Do you have good reason to doubt their statistics? Multiple doctors have told me the same thing. Do you expect the cancer to go away (as in do you think there is a higher chance of this happening than not?). My hope is that alternative medicine will offer a greater chance. Are you fine with the average or even worst case outcomes? It's hard for me to tell what those are beyond an intellectual level. I'm not currently in excessive pain, although my pain thresholds seem to be different from that of others. Seneca (I think) wrote that the worst thing we can do to people is assure that that "everything will be fine". We should instead think of the worst case scenario because upon imagining it, we will often realise that it is not as bad as we think. This way we can be prepared for the worst and perhaps even have a better chance of avoiding it, instead of being potentially surprised and unprepared when / if it arrives. I try to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. A final question if I may, is if you think that there is some good in your situation? I am surely being naive but I always wondered whether being told you have little time left while you are still young would result in having a really amazing last few years. I have heard of people who say that they lived more in their final months or years than they had all their lives before cancer. It's very relative and people tend to highly discount the past and future but it is an interesting perspective. I tend to be more optimistic than my doctors. My doctors tend to get freaked out about my health with looks of shock on their faces. Likewise, my relatives and friends underestimate the seriousness of my bad health, because I tend to be so optimistic. Therefore they assume that there's not a real problem. As far as positive attitude goes, I really have to stay away from the wrong people and be around the right people. Being in a healthy environment (both physically and psychologically) plays a major role with my health. As well as attempting to live as healthy of a lifestyle as reasonably possible. A person can shift either way depending upon many environmental factors. Even a subtle lack of faith on the part of others can play a negative role in one's potential survival. It is cliche but I think that people don't use their time and life properly. Most people seem comfortable working a majority of their youth away and leaving only old age, which is not guaranteed, for themselves. There's a letter by Seneca which I adore which really delves into this issue. Fully agreed. Here's an excerpt if you like: The poet speaks to you about the day, and about this very day that is flying. Is there, then, any doubt that for hapless mortals, that is, for men who are engrossed, the fairest day is ever the first to flee? Old age surprises them while their minds are still childish, and they come to it unprepared and unarmed, for they have made no provision for it; they have stumbled upon it suddenly and unexpectedly, they did not notice that it was drawing nearer day by day. Even as conversation or reading or deep meditation on some subject beguiles the traveler, and he finds that he has reached the end of his journey before he was aware that he was approaching it, just so with this unceasing and most swift journey of life, which we make at the same pace whether waking or sleeping; those who are engrossed become aware of it only at the end. Very nice quote. Thank you.
~vince~ Don't confuse me with the facts.

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