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The human animal
Why do we seperate ourselves?

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The human animal

Epicurean Delight
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Posted 08/14/08 - 07:32 AM:	#21
Granted no other animal (as far as we know) has invented a god. However pack animals do exist in the eyes of the other. From observation it would seem that they communicate with each other, they show some pity for each other, and some may be exiled from the pack for an act they committed. Is there not some sort of shame involved when an animal is exiled from the pack? Also I find i pretty narcissistic to say we are gods compared to any other animal when all we are are psychotic apes, and any other animal given the right conditions could evolve intelligence equal or superior to us.

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Posted 08/14/08 - 07:55 AM:	#22
How do I love thee? Let me count the ways. I love thee to the depth and breadth and height My soul can reach, when feeling out of sight For the ends of Being and ideal Grace. I love thee to the level of everyday's Most quiet need, by sun and candle-light. I love thee freely, as men strive for Right; I love thee purely, as they turn from Praise. I love thee with a passion put to use In my old griefs, and with my childhood's faith. I love thee with a love I seemed to lose With my lost saints, --- I love thee with the breath, Smiles, tears, of all my life! --- and, if God choose, I shall but love thee better after death. - - Elizabeth Barrett Browning ---------------------------------------------- ---------------------- When an animal writes poetry like this, I'll welcome him as my brother.

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Posted 08/14/08 - 07:59 AM:	#23
That could be considered a valid distinction, the ability to create art and appreciate aesthetics. Ever since we evolved into humans we have created art, it started as early as with the Cro-magnons (who I believe live in Northern France, someone correct me if they know of a different location).

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Posted 08/14/08 - 08:49 AM:	#24
BLibralesso wrote: Granted no other animal (as far as we know) has invented a god. However pack animals do exist in the eyes of the other. From observation it would seem that they communicate with each other, they show some pity for each other, and some may be exiled from the pack for an act they committed. Is there not some sort of shame involved when an animal is exiled from the pack? Also I find i pretty narcissistic to say we are gods compared to any other animal when all we are are psychotic apes, and any other animal given the right conditions could evolve intelligence equal or superior to us. I think you haven't quite got my meaning. A pack animal is aware of who is in the pack and who is out; they are aware of who is up and who is down in the hierarchy; they may have fellow feelings like sympathy, and loyalty. None of that requires the reflexivity that I am talking about. There are rather few animals that can recognise themselves in a mirror, but there are a few. Quite a large step beyond this is to recognise that behind the eyes of another is one who sees an image of oneself, and interprets it as I interpret them. This ability then allows me to interpret and predict other people's behaviour on a much more sound basis - a big advantage in a social species 'He thinks that I'm like this , but if I can get him to think I'm like so then I'll be able to...' And hence the importance in human society of 'what the neighbours think'. The God thing was a bit speculative, I won't try and defend that. I rather agree about the psychotic apes thing, I'm just trying to be abit more specific in identifying the nature of the psychosis. It's not intelligence as such I am putting forward, so much as a particular turn of thought to a very particular thing which I could call one's 'social image'. Other animals can and do have a rich social life, but they are not aware of, and therefore do not try to manipulate, their social image which literally is what their neighbours think of them.
The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

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Posted 08/14/08 - 09:39 AM:	#25
That is true we do maintain more of a social image than any other animal, but that could be caused by the fact that we think we are more than we really are. We think we should be something more than we are therefore we put on these fake appearances in order to get other people to think something of us. I am not sure if I am getting my thought through clearly with this post, but i am trying to say that we create this social image and try to manipulate it because of the very fact that we refuse to accept we are animals.

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Posted 08/14/08 - 10:58 AM:	#26
we refuse to accept we are only animals.

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Posted 08/14/08 - 04:47 PM:	#27
Well you can not deny that we are animals, we all are from the mammal family and evolved from apes.

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Posted 08/14/08 - 11:41 PM:	#28
BLibralesso wrote: That is true we do maintain more of a social image than any other animal, but that could be caused by the fact that we think we are more than we really are. We think we should be something more than we are therefore we put on these fake appearances in order to get other people to think something of us. I am not sure if I am getting my thought through clearly with this post, but i am trying to say that we create this social image and try to manipulate it because of the very fact that we refuse to accept we are animals. I think I agree with you, except to say that 'thinking we are animals' is part of the same process. Imagine a bunch of tigers having a discussion about whether they are like all the other animals, or what makes them different. It wouldn't be a very tigerish tiger that entertained the notion of being like another kind of animal; they just 'know' that tigers are better looking (and faster and fiercer and more intelligent and in every way vastly superior to everything else, including hairless apes). Perhaps we are more like mobile vegetables, or oversized parasites.
The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

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Posted 08/15/08 - 12:11 AM:	#29
BLibralesso wrote: Also I find i pretty narcissistic to say we are gods compared to any other animal when all we are are psychotic apes, and any other animal given the right conditions could evolve intelligence equal or superior to us. Speak for yourself. I'm not a psychotic ape, and none of my family or acquaintances are psychotic apes. It's hilarious to see how people get over-excited when this question is raised. It seems you are aware that we are superior to animals, but you think we shouldn't talk about it in case we sound immodest. So who do you think is listening?

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Posted 08/15/08 - 12:22 AM:	#30
BLibralesso wrote: We as humans say we are more intelligent, however as I look onto society I do not see that. On the contrary I think some animals are just as intelligent as humans. Then you must be looking with your eyes shut and you should open them and appreciate what you have. Look at the most intelligent things the most intelligent animals do. A dolphin will put a piece of sponge on the end of its nose to protect it while rooting around in the mud. That's about the limit of it. Then look at what you are doing now. Open your eyes. You are wasting what you've been given by chance.

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