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The 'goal' of society

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The 'goal' of society

sensabile
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Posted 11/13/03 - 12:39 PM:	#1
What is the ultimate perpose or 'goal' that a society is aiming for, there are so many different people that make up a society that have so many different 'goals' themselves so does a society really have a 'goal'? I started to pounder this when I started to consider the deteoriation of society, but then what should society actually be? And if it is deteoriating is it still a society so what exactly is a society?
For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

Unisonus
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Posted 11/13/03 - 01:14 PM:	#2
Ask the question: What are you and any other random person on the street both aiming for and recognize how ridiculous it is.
"...take care that your style and diction run musically, pleasantly, and plainly, with clear, proper, and well-placed words, setting forth your purpose to the best of your power, and putting your ideas intelligibly, without confusion or obscurity." - Miguel de Cervantes

OptimusDinkus
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Posted 11/13/03 - 01:40 PM:	#3
well, it also can be pondered when playing certain games which simulate you being a "god". Sim City for instance after a long time of razing up the city, you wonder, wtf am I doing this for? after that point I just stop playing the game for some reason......maybe the same will work for society....

Baron Max
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Posted 11/13/03 - 04:31 PM:	#4
I think the major problem here is as you've said, "...so what exactly is a society?" That question will ultimately determine, well, maybe determine, the remainder of you 'ponderings'. One thing that keeps coming back to me when I begin to consider "society" is the number of it's members. For example, I don't think that one can say the New York City has a society ...as in ONE society. With that in mind then, there must be more than one society in NYC. If that's true ....?? Also, when people begin to talk about "human society" or somesuch, it brings up major difficulties for me. Is a society in NYC a part of a society in China? ...or in the Philippines? ...or in Iraq? And, good heavens, is an Iraqi society some integral part of one of the societies in NYC? Geez, it boggles the mind! Baron Max

Libertarian
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Posted 11/14/03 - 12:22 PM:	#5
Unisonus wrote: Ask the question: What are you and any other random person on the street both aiming for and recognize how ridiculous it is. Beautifully stated!
"Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatum." — William of Ockahm

Baron Max
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Posted 11/14/03 - 04:41 PM:	#6
Libertarian wrote: Beautifully stated! Well, that small part was, I guess. But what of the remainding questions posed by the original topic? He missed that part altogether, didn't he? To me, one of the most important issues in discussing "society" is actually defining it or itemizing it. And unless we can agree on a common, working definition, almost nothing you can say about "society" can have any real meaning ....to anyone. What is society? How are it's members organized? How do it's members work together? Can a member of one society be a member of another competing society? How many different societies are there in, say, New York City? How many societies are there in, say, a town of 2,500 people? Is the Ladies Knitting Group a "society"? To me, just the term "society" conjures up discussions and arguments that could go on forever and ever in this world of ours! ...and it's interesting, especially since we're constantly using that term ......and most don't know what the hell it is or how it works! ....LOL! Baron Max

rabeldin
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Posted 11/14/03 - 05:15 PM:	#7
sensabile wrote: What is the ultimate perpose or 'goal' that a society is aiming for, there are so many different people that make up a society that have so many different 'goals' themselves so does a society really have a 'goal'? I started to pounder this when I started to consider the deteoriation of society, but then what should society actually be? And if it is deteoriating is it still a society so what exactly is a society? Older traditional societies were defined by the force of arms. The King says "This is mine and this is the law." American society was built on the foundation of a constitution approved by delegates of some colonies who broke off from a king's authority. The goal of American society per the constitution is to preserve the freedom of its citizens "to pursue happiness" (whatever that may be)
Leave no assumption unquestioned.

Baron Max
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Posted 11/15/03 - 04:13 AM:	#8
rabeldin wrote: The goal of American society per the constitution is to preserve the freedom of its citizens "to pursue happiness" (whatever that may be) That's it? No, I don't think so. There was various statements about "the common good" and "the commom defense", etc. Note the "COMMON" term? So what does that mean if it's in conflict with the individual's "pursuit of happiness"? I.e., during an invasion of the nation, if citizens decided to "pursue happiness" instead of "provide for the common defense", which would you consider the more important of the two? I also have a problem with each and every citizen deciding, on his/her own, to "pursue happiness" (whatever that may be)" as a bit unrealistic in the final analysis ...one individual's own "happiness" might conflict with those of his fellows. What does one do then? See? It ain't so easy as to just make that statement without some guidelines or rules or laws ...and don't those almost always conflict with your idea of freedom of it's citizens? I just don't see how a nation can operate successfully without due consideration of the majority over and above that of the individual. It just doesn't see realistic to me ....and if it does to you, please explain how you'd deal with such conflicts between indivduals. (And please, don't just post some idle fantasy about all people being "good people", 'cause that just ain't so!) Baron Max

sensabile
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Posted 11/15/03 - 04:32 AM:	#9
Baron Max wrote: Well, that small part was, I guess. But what of the remainding questions posed by the original topic? He missed that part altogether, didn't he? To me, one of the most important issues in discussing "society" is actually defining it or itemizing it. And unless we can agree on a common, working definition, almost nothing you can say about "society" can have any real meaning ....to anyone. What is society? How are it's members organized? How do it's members work together? Can a member of one society be a member of another competing society? How many different societies are there in, say, New York City? How many societies are there in, say, a town of 2,500 people? Is the Ladies Knitting Group a "society"? To me, just the term "society" conjures up discussions and arguments that could go on forever and ever in this world of ours! ...and it's interesting, especially since we're constantly using that term ......and most don't know what the hell it is or how it works! ....LOL! Baron Max You've uncovered more questions than I realised there were, but one I think is obvious the term 'society' can't be the sort of thing that means whatever the individual wants it to mean like 'love'; this is because whilst 'society' and 'love' are both concepts, 'society' refers to more than just an individual. That's it? No, I don't think so. There was various statements about "the common good" and "the commom defense", etc. Note the "COMMON" term? So what does that mean if it's in conflict with the individual's "pursuit of happiness"? I.e., during an invasion of the nation, if citizens decided to "pursue happiness" instead of "provide for the common defense", which would you consider the more important of the two? I also have a problem with each and every citizen deciding, on his/her own, to "pursue happiness" (whatever that may be)" as a bit unrealistic in the final analysis ...one individual's own "happiness" might conflict with those of his fellows. What does one do then? See? It ain't so easy as to just make that statement without some guidelines or rules or laws ...and don't those almost always conflict with your idea of freedom of it's citizens? I just don't see how a nation can operate successfully without due consideration of the majority over and above that of the individual. It just doesn't see realistic to me ....and if it does to you, please explain how you'd deal with such conflicts between indivduals. (And please, don't just post some idle fantasy about all people being "good people", 'cause that just ain't so!) Baron Max Perhaps you have uncovered part of what a society is, it is a common perpose and common interest between many people so yes the 'Knitting Club' would be considered a society. If a society is to be a 'common' interest rather than individual interest then perhaps I am right in saying that todays society is deteoriating because todays society is beggining to be more and more interested in the individual rather than the common interest. Furthermore I think people are beggining to be more interested in their own happiness rather than maintaining society, when I go to work the people I work with have no interest in their job only getting paid and leaving and getting fucked off their tits later on at the pub. If that isn't a deteoriating society then please explain what one is and I would be much obliged.
For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

Baron Max
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Posted 11/15/03 - 04:46 AM:	#10
sensabile wrote: ..., 'society' refers to more than just an individual. Yeah, and yet we continue to view and discuss "society" in terms of the individual! ...which simply can't be done ...let alone be "right". sensabile wrote: ..., perhaps I am right in saying that todays society is deteoriating because todays society is beggining to be more and more interested in the individual rather than the common interest. Exactly. Where we lose out in the analysis of "society" is when we lose sight of the rest of the people that make up that society. Too often people can ONLY focus on their OWN needs, desires, wants to the exclusion of others ...even within their own circle of friends, family, etc. Perhaps it's 'cause they're just selfish and egotistical? And being an old fart, I just have to view "society" as deteriorating from that of the past. In my day and time, there was always a consideration of others ...even if it were ignored, at the very least, there WAS that consideration. Now, I fear, even that is lost ...or deteriorated horribly. sensabile wrote: ...the people I work with have no interest in their job only getting paid and leaving and getting fucked off their tits later on at the pub. Yep! And multiply that by almost every person on Earth and then what have you? ...a mass of individuals who have virtually no interest in any of the other individuals! Geez, it becomes so ...well, it's just over-fuckin'-whelming, ain't it? Baron Max

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