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The 'goal' of society

froclown
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Joined: Oct 16, 2003
Location: Illinois
Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 678

Posted 11/22/03 - 09:10 PM:	#61
the mind that talks and discusses philosophies and holds ideals, is not the mind that acts and makes decisions. We need to use behavioral conditioning, not congnitive conditioning on people. You can tell a man all day how do fish, but he will never actually learn to fish until you show him, and teach him. To teach means to impress upon his deeper mind an association between an action and a reward. Just saying there is a reward isn't enough, you have to explain why, evne this isn't enough. You have to make appeals to his emotions, you have to navigate arround defense mechanisms, you have to make the activity socially acceptable to a set of peers. Most of all, you have to re-train his reflexes through direct action, and putting the ideal into practice. Noone ever stopped smoking just because he was told it was unhealthy, or even if he agrees that it is unhealthy. He has to be seperated from a communty that supports smoking, he has to break all semantic and emotional ties which romanticize smoking, and he has to force himself to not smoke, or to quell the smkoing relfexive behavior with a simmilar but healthy behavior, like chewing gum. Thus "Behavioral conditioning" is the way to go. The best place to start conditioning is on chldren who have not yet made original imprints which need to be unlearned before new ones can be learned. It's easier to prevent behaviors than it is to change them. Thus impliment the Ideals I but forth into the school systems, and the religious systems, and eventually the new generation will impliment them in the political systems. The end resutl being to make all instituitions unnecessary as the individuals will be driven and disciplined enough to guide themselves rationally in society, by pure force of Will, without appeal to external authorites. And they will be disciplined enough not to act themselves as the authority for another human being, offering only modest advice, never playing the dominate role over another, and always leaving the discision to the one who asks. See how Krishna answers Arjuna in the Bahgavad Gita
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Mashuri
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Joined: Dec 01, 2003
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Total Posts: 16

Posted 12/02/03 - 12:20 AM:	#62
Thought I'd chime in here. Froclown, your Utopia is doomed from the beginning because it's trying to change human nature. Every system that has tried to do this has failed monumentally. Nazism and communism are two recent examples. You have the mistaken idea that human behavior is solely determined through social conditioning and that is simply not true. Some of it is but a great deal of it is hard-wired through thousands of years of evolution. If you think you can simply "deprogram" that with your conditioning you're in for one big mess, just like everyone else who has tried it. Try reading "The Blank Slate" by Steven Pinker if you are honestly interested in learning more about human behavior and society. Rather than just preaching ideals, his book is rooted in a lot of hard science and dilligent study.

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