Philosophy Forums
Forums Links Articles Gallery Chat
Style:



Register | Forgot Password
MembersCalendarNew Posts ChatHelp
Philosophy Forums » Social Sciences » The 'goal' of society » The 'goal' of society

The 'goal' of society

printPrint


Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

The 'goal' of society
sensabile
Raisy Daisy...
Avatar

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Location: Southern England
Total Topics: 131
Total Posts: 4213
Posted 11/20/03 - 01:37 PM:
quote post
#51
froclown wrote:
It's not Hitler, it's the Master Therion. The prophet of the new aeon.

By behavior conditoning I only mean the Use of science to alter the social situation so that every indivual can expres himself according othis true nature. Not that some will oppress others. The system I propose is totally based on the individuals and only submissive to rely on the results of scientific expreiment, that is rather than the demands of individuals with privite ends.

The point of conditioning is to make the individual self discipines such that there is no need for external authority. Not to make him the slave or pawn of another man.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/engccxx.htm

Here learn about Thelema from the text directly.


The First Law (or something):

1. Had! The manifestation of Nuit.

Reminds me of Monty Python haha!

But seriousy Clown if this is your means of arguments I shall make it your ends of arguments.

There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.


Love is the law, love under will.


What is your will, what is the meaning of love in here because it says only:

57. Invoke me under my stars! Love is the law, love under will. Nor let the fools mistake love; for there are love and love. There is the dove, and there is the serpent. Choose ye well! He, my prophet, hath chosen, knowing the law of the fortress, and the great mystery of the House of God.


Don't rearrange what has already been said but translate this into meaningly English.

Those who discuss the contents of this Book are to be shunned by all, as centres of pestilence.


Oh dear... shaking head

...oh and Frownclown answer my other questions too, and DON'T forget to respond to my comments on your statement about 'Life and Death being illusions'.
For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen.
-Homer's The Illiad

Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again?
-Mark 9:50
sensabile
Raisy Daisy...
Avatar

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Location: Southern England
Total Topics: 131
Total Posts: 4213
Posted 11/20/03 - 02:03 PM:
quote post
#52
Just through my boredom and interest I have looked around this website and it is actually where you get all your arguments from Clown, it has reference to alchemy aswell and other things which after careful searching are referenced with your arguments. Do you have any original thought Clown?
For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen.
-Homer's The Illiad

Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again?
-Mark 9:50
froclown
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 16, 2003
Location: Illinois
Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 678
Posted 11/20/03 - 09:20 PM:
quote post
#53
Love here is meant the union of subject and object. That is the union of self and other. Of A with not A to the perfection of naught.

0=2 or rather 0 = n + -n

Duality is an illusion and perfection of Will, anihilates the self with the other. Thus the act is the goal. "Pure Will unassuaged of purpose free from the lust of result, is perfect in every way"

"The perfect and the perfect are not two but one, neigh, the are none."

"My profit is a fool with his one one one, are they not of the ox and none by the book."

That is to say every pure act of Will is an act of love, it is samadhi of the self and the action Willed. To lose oneself completly in the action is love.

The serpent is knowledge and physical power, the dove is intuition and spiritual power. Left and right brain are a good analogy.

As for original ideas, I have some, but why should I make up noe ideas, where there are perfectly good gnostic and alchemical ideas to study?

Why invent a new philosophy which does whay plato did, only in a new jargon?

I update the information when neccesary, and interpert on my own when I think best. I also do the rituals and experiment, to see if I get the same results, and note where my results differ, try to discern why that might be.


Hadit = the subjective point, any point of awareness

Nuit = Infite space and posibility.

Nuit is like a plane and Hadit a point on the plain. For every origin point, the plan has different grid lines. The grid lines would be like out perceived universe. Thus Nuits is all possible points of origin and thus all possible grids.

Hadit is always the perceiver, never the percieved, we look out from hadit, we are essencially hadit. The Will of Hadit is manifest in how the points line up on the Grid, every hadit has it's own "True Will".

Evey act of Will as such joins in union some aspect of Nuit, some potential with Hadit. That Every act of Will is an act of Love between the self and some expreince which is possible to it. Through Will we make the potential manifest into the actual, that is the actual for our subjective universe, our orientation in Nuit.

Thus life is an illusion because Nuit contains all points and all possible orinations. This never changes. Nuit = 0
Hadit is like the = sign and 2 is the result.

That is to say nothing actually manifests itself, there is no "actuality" there are only differnt ways of looking at nothingness at 0. Each hadit is another way of looking, that is dualistically dividing up the nothing.

Everything is an illusion of duality. Life and death are the same sort of dualistic illusion as space and time.

there is 0 then from a point of view that zero is left and right. These opposites imply eachother, there is no left with our right. Also, remove the point of view, and there is no left or right, the annihilate eachother.

Left or right of what? See the point. With out a point of origin, there is nothing. With a point of origin, the self, comes the Will or a grid imposed which creates all possible interaction for a point. The self then must unite itself fully (in love) with all experiences that are in accordance with that Will.

The word of Sin is Restriction. O man! refuse not thy wife, if she will! O lover, if thou wilt, depart! There is no bond that can unite the divided but love: all else is a curse. Accursed! Accursed be it to the aeons! Hell."

Restrictions that prevent oneself or another from fully expression of his Will and totally losing oneself in "LOVE", are sins against nature and the god hood of every individual.
"X/|-|3|| `/0|_|'/3 [)0||3 +|-|1||6$ |216|-|+, |*30|*|3 X/0||'+ |}3 $|_||23 `/0|_|'/3 [)0||3 @||`/+|-|1||6 @+ @||" 60[)
yolandayeti
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 27, 2003
Total Topics: 11
Total Posts: 327
Posted 11/21/03 - 01:19 AM:
quote post
#54
For your own good, Froclown, I am going to ask you to voluntarily check in at the local looney bin, where I am sure you will have many fascinating conversations with other inmates, but in complete safety.
Baron Max
Tenured Poster

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Apr 01, 2002
Total Topics: 176
Total Posts: 4118
Posted 11/21/03 - 04:41 AM:
quote post
#55
yolandayeti wrote:
For your own good, Froclown, I am going to ask you to voluntarily check in at the local looney bin, ...


Yolanda, there can't be a "local looney bin" or he'd already be there ...and it wouldn't be voluntary, either! ....LOL!

Baron Max
froclown
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 16, 2003
Location: Illinois
Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 678
Posted 11/21/03 - 10:59 AM:
quote post
#56
Ok, how about this?

Society's goal is to ensure that no one acts in bad faith, to that ends o ensure that everyone is disciplined enough to not hold back or feel like giving up or in to temptation to act in bad faith. While also making sure that all the jobs necessary to meet every aspect of survival in the community are being accomplished.

Society's goal Is not to act as a collective Will, as a large groups will always have different opinions and thus This Will of society can only act in bad faith.

Acting in good faith, means taking full responcibilty without hiding behind any excuses that externalize the locus of control. There must be no "Laurl and Hardy syndrome". That is no one should be able to say "Now look what you made me do". This includes soldiers who kill in war and say "I had to, it was my job, or I was ordered to do it" as well as the psychopath that says "I had to kill her, it was God's Will", or "The devil made me do it".

Or, I have to do that "it's the law" Or "Jesus says, whatever" These are all acting n bad faith, and not from your own True Will. This is the behavior learned as a child to seek permission or reasons for your behavior, so that if you mess up,you can say, It wasn't me, Some devil or another made me do it.

And now I have said the same thing, existentially that Isaid before poeticaly. I'm not going into Sartre, Hegel, or Heidigger's metaphysics, because they are not aesthetically pleasing to me. I may discuss the neitzsche version, if you like. But I prefer Crowley's, kabalistic symbolism and synchonisity, to the confusion of heiddiger's the Being of the beings is transposited in the Being of Being, but not confused with Dasein's Being in Being as reveled to it's own being by the way of being, which is in it's essence Being. Which of course is Being as such in it's relation to Beings in time, in it's ontic sence charectorized by it's ontology which has the existeniel Being of being a being in an otological relationship with it's existential Being.
"X/|-|3|| `/0|_|'/3 [)0||3 +|-|1||6$ |216|-|+, |*30|*|3 X/0||'+ |}3 $|_||23 `/0|_|'/3 [)0||3 @||`/+|-|1||6 @+ @||" 60[)
rabeldin
Probabalistic Philosopher
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 06, 2003
Location: Puerto Rico
Total Topics: 29
Total Posts: 5423
Posted 11/21/03 - 02:21 PM:
quote post
#57
Society's goal is to "get along". We make the best of a bad deal.
Leave no assumption unquestioned.
froclown
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 16, 2003
Location: Illinois
Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 678
Posted 11/22/03 - 12:05 AM:
quote post
#58
Why should we get along, if we can live just as well or better alone?

No, we can't we need soicety to ensure that the indivdual has the support necessary to do his Will.

The danger is when individuals exceed beyond the limits of their Will and start using society as a way to attain an unnatrual level of decadence, that limits and restricts the Will of others in the society.

If society gives back less than is put in, or gives others the products of your labor, then you would be better off alone. Thus society which only supports a few at the exprence of many, is unstable and unhealthy.

Society is for the better of all men. Slavery is for the betterment of a few men. In Western capitalist democracies the line between slavery and society is blurred on purpose to make the slaves thing they are getting a fair share. This is worse that direct slavery and oppression, because it restricts slaves from realizing the need for rebellion.

They just feel apathetic, purposeless and depressed, for reason's they don't understand. Then they are given the wonder drugof the oppresive class, prozac, which now people will not be hindered in their laboring for the elite class, by physical expression of their unconscious feelings of helplessness.

All this must end. NOW!
"X/|-|3|| `/0|_|'/3 [)0||3 +|-|1||6$ |216|-|+, |*30|*|3 X/0||'+ |}3 $|_||23 `/0|_|'/3 [)0||3 @||`/+|-|1||6 @+ @||" 60[)
Baron Max
Tenured Poster

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Apr 01, 2002
Total Topics: 176
Total Posts: 4118
Posted 11/22/03 - 03:34 AM:
quote post
#59
froclown wrote:
All this must end. NOW!


Well, Clown, it's the weekend here now ....is it okay if I wait and do all that on Monday instead? smiling face

Baron Max
sensabile
Raisy Daisy...
Avatar

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Location: Southern England
Total Topics: 131
Total Posts: 4213
Posted 11/22/03 - 04:42 AM:
quote post
#60
froclown wrote:
Why should we get along, if we can live just as well or better alone?

No, we can't we need soicety to ensure that the indivdual has the support necessary to do his Will.

The danger is when individuals exceed beyond the limits of their Will and start using society as a way to attain an unnatrual level of decadence, that limits and restricts the Will of others in the society.

If society gives back less than is put in, or gives others the products of your labor, then you would be better off alone. Thus society which only supports a few at the exprence of many, is unstable and unhealthy.

Society is for the better of all men. Slavery is for the betterment of a few men. In Western capitalist democracies the line between slavery and society is blurred on purpose to make the slaves thing they are getting a fair share. This is worse that direct slavery and oppression, because it restricts slaves from realizing the need for rebellion.

They just feel apathetic, purposeless and depressed, for reason's they don't understand. Then they are given the wonder drugof the oppresive class, prozac, which now people will not be hindered in their laboring for the elite class, by physical expression of their unconscious feelings of helplessness.

All this must end. NOW!


It's difficult to comment on your posts Frown, because whilst what you say is great and all and it would be great if we could make society how you depict it but it is just not feasible. You talk of what is 'best' for man but what is 'best'? Is best your efficient functioning machines without lust or greed and just 'pure' Will? Because if it is then that will never happen in this day and age, the only way to ever change anything that much is through war and destruction and do you want that? It would be nice to think that through talking you could suddenly make people think about their lives and then suddenly their 'True Will' would come out and society would be 'perfect'.

However people are really stupid and love to disagree with anything that leads to change and will resent anything like change.
For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen.
-Homer's The Illiad

Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again?
-Mark 9:50
Download thread as

Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7



You don't have permission to post.

Please login or register.

© 2008

26 total queries
This page was created in 0.59 seconds
Memory used: 11337024 bytes
Server Status: time since last reboot is 11 days, 8:28, load average: 0.52, 0.56, 0.63