The First Person and Third Person Views: Philosophy Forums

The First Person and Third Person Views

Cadrache
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Posted 04/21/09 - 11:59 AM: Subject: The First Person and Third Person Views	#1
How does the meaning or definition of the term 'I' alter, dependent upon the first or 3rd person views? Attainable Knowledge. The article seems to imply that knowledge is derived from the 3rd person viewpoint; yet proof of acquiring knowledge seems to show that attainable knowledge exists within the first person viewpoint by way of usage. Which viewpoint did you attempt to write your article from? That's all for now. Edited by Postmodern Beatnik on 04/22/09 - 09:18 AM
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion.

davidchalmers
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Posted 05/09/09 - 08:56 PM:	#2
I don't think the meaning of 'I' depends on whether one takes the first-person or third-person view. The meaning is what it is -- it's a term used by speakers to refer to themselves under a first-person mode of presentation. The meaning is essentially first-personal, but one can still theorize about that meaning for a third-person perspective. Re "the article", I'm not sure which article you mean. I think that full knowledge requires taking both the first-person perspective and the third-person perspective. The first-person perspective is required most obviously for full knowledge of consciousness. The third-person perspective is required e.g. for knowledge of physics. For some phenomena such as for example friendship, both first- and third-person perspectives seem vital. When I write specifically about consciousness, I tend to emphasize the first-person perspective on the phenomenon, but I think it is also possible to take a third-person perspective toward the phenomenon (thinking about consciousness in others, its neural and behavioral correlates, and so on), and a full understanding is likely to involve both. My article "How Can We Construct A Science of Consciousness" tries to set out a view on which both play a role.

Cadrache
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Posted 05/12/09 - 02:16 PM:	#3
Sorry; I did forgot to mention which article I was reading. http://consc.net/papers/c-and-c.html
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion.

Cadrache
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Posted 05/13/09 - 10:09 AM:	#4
Your answer is much appreciated! Unfortunately; I didn't have time to read over your suggestion last night; and I won't be able to read it until after work sometime. I might have another question or two concerning the term of "I" afterwards.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion.

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