Philosophy Forums
Style:


System-building and it's Discontents

PrintPrint


Page: 1 2

System-building and it's Discontents
Logico
Ceci n'est pas un Logico
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jul 29, 2009

Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 9
Posted 08/03/09 - 05:42 PM:
quote post
#11
Kelby wrote:


I may be misunderstanding your point. I don't see how this is a problem. It is quite natural to construct something from a foundation. Pessimists who despised system-building did just that. Especially Schopenhaur. For something to count as system-building, does it have to start with an absolute foundational truth? Or can it start at an arbitrary point. It seems to me that system-building does not need to start at a certain point. It just has to start somewhere, and the construction of facts atop if not one but several starting points may be acheived. Again...Pessimistic literature does this. We are time-conscious. We are conscious of our history. Other animals are the "present-incarnate," while humans know that death will arrive. From this basic fact, which I will say is a "truth," notable pessimists have derived other "truths." Is this not system-building?


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but in reading Schopenhauer it seems to me that his work embodies the very idea of a philosophical system. That is, he himself has stated that his metaphysical position of the world as will and representation is all-encompassing, and is inexorably linked with his other ideas relating to ethics and aesthetics. For this reason he recommends in the beginning of his primary work The World as Will and Representation that anyone who wanted to commit to an honest reading and understanding of it that they read it at least a second time with the knowledge that, as I paraphrase, the latter parts are as much support to the earlier parts as the earlier to the latter. If I remember correctly without looking it up, I believe he even described his philosophy as reducible to a single idea; namely the world as this double-aspected will and representation, and from it all else follows. He also recommends a familiarity with his earlier works and the works of Kant, with emphasis on On the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason.

With this in mind I am somewhat confused as to how you define a philosophical system. As it seems to me that everything about Schopenhauer pointed to system building.

Edited by Logico on 08/03/09 - 05:56 PM
Kelby
analytic poop
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jan 03, 2008
Location: The Fire Nation

Total Topics: 17
Total Posts: 388
Posted 08/03/09 - 10:14 PM:
quote post
#12
Logico wrote:


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but in reading Schopenhauer it seems to me that his work embodies the very idea of a philosophical system. That is, he himself has stated that his metaphysical position of the world as will and representation is all-encompassing, and is inexorably linked with his other ideas relating to ethics and aesthetics. For this reason he recommends in the beginning of his primary work The World as Will and Representation that anyone who wanted to commit to an honest reading and understanding of it that they read it at least a second time with the knowledge that, as I paraphrase, the latter parts are as much support to the earlier parts as the earlier to the latter. If I remember correctly without looking it up, I believe he even described his philosophy as reducible to a single idea; namely the world as this double-aspected will and representation, and from it all else follows. He also recommends a familiarity with his earlier works and the works of Kant, with emphasis on On the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason.

With this in mind I am somewhat confused as to how you define a philosophical system. As it seems to me that everything about Schopenhauer pointed to system building.



That why I noted that Schopenhauer resorted to system building.
Kelby
analytic poop
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jan 03, 2008
Location: The Fire Nation

Total Topics: 17
Total Posts: 388
Posted 08/03/09 - 10:17 PM:
quote post
#13
Heterotheist wrote:
I am calling a commitment to rationality "philosophy", and system-building a particular style or path of philosophy. It starts not at an absolute, foundational truth, but with the goal of establishing such a foundation. The dilemma of the five tropes makes it absurd to have that goal; therefore, system-building is absurd. Unless it is naive (not aware of the dilemma).



I'm still not sure why it follows that system-building is absurd. Is it absurd because it tries to establish a foundational truth? Why is this absurd?

What do you mean by naive system building? Maybe the latter is what I am talking about.
Heterotheist
Student

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jun 24, 2009

Total Topics: 4
Total Posts: 79
Posted 08/05/09 - 04:23 PM:
quote post
#14
Well we're quibbling over definitions. The longer we do that the more in danger we are of missing the forest for the trees.

The systematizing philosopher believes that the end of philosophy is conceivable -- that when the "work" is done we will have a unified and sound understanding of everything. I think there are good philosophical reasons to be pessimistic about this project, both deductive (the concept of a truth without context is absurd) and inductive (2500 years of work and we're still arguing about some of the same problems).

The attitude of a systematizer therefore is a severe and workmanlike optimism. I think that's too limited and myopic an attitude to allow it to dominate the moods of playfulness and pessimism, which are of interest and offer insight as a mode of engaging with the world as well. Relentlessly severe and optimistic people are usually boring people.

I would offer for consideration the idea that there is a fundamental conflict between being a good systematizer and being an interesting person.
Download thread as

Page: 1 2



Sorry, you don't have permission to post. Log in, or register if you haven't yet.