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Success and Money
How important are they?

Success and Money

TheArchitect
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Posted 04/19/08 - 03:19 PM: Subject: Success and Money	#1
How much importance would you put on success and money? Scientists have now discovered that there is a set of genes related to a person's work ethic and intelligence, making things such as these "determined by birth." Should success be one's ultimate goal in life, or should it just be a way to secure enough money to achieve escapism? Meaning that one should earn money in order to do what they really want in leisure time, unless they really like their job, of course.

cortes
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Posted 04/19/08 - 05:06 PM:	#2
A new study, "Economic Growth and Subjective Well-Being: Reassessing the Easterlin Paradox" by Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers has made waves by demonstrating some basic common sense. It turns out that money can buy happiness. The traditional view, as articulated by the Richard Easterlin in the famous Easterlin Paradox, is that, beyond certain basic needs, economic progress does not lead to greater satisfaction with life. We all know the stereotypes of the husband and father who toils away at his job, working his way up the corporate ladder from mailboy to CEO, never stopping to smell the roses until he finally drops dead of a heart attak. But what Stevenson and Wolfers find is that: Within countries, those with more income are happier. Over time, people are happier as they increase their income. People who live in richer countries are happier than people who live in poor countries. The only real surprise is why this should come as a surprise to anyone. Just think of what money can literally buy: food and shelter, health care, toys for children and adults, vacations to visit loved ones or interesting desinations, and ultimately for most, liberation from work itself. Even charity is better with money. Of course, this doesn't mean that happiness is a strict function of income. Too many people manage to ruin their lives with money or, at a minimum, to fail to improve their lives as their financial situation improves. But overall these people are exceptions. Another determinant of happiness is age. "The oldest Americans are also the happiest, research find"s.
_____________________ Copyright (c) 2008 Hernan Cortes, Sociedad de los Conquistadores. cortes@conquistador.org http://www.conquistador.org

TheArchitect
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Posted 04/19/08 - 07:20 PM:	#3
Hi cortes, how big of a gap is there between the average level of happiness of high class and middle class people? Because I read in this book called "The Happiness Hypothesis" by Jonathan Haidt that there is a difference but it is almost negligible. He says that healthy social relationships with those around you play a much more substantial role in determining happiness than economic standing.

cortes
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Posted 04/19/08 - 07:44 PM:	#4
TheArchitect wrote: Hi cortes, how big of a gap is there between the average level of happiness of high class and middle class people? Because I read in this book called "The Happiness Hypothesis" by Jonathan Haidt that there is a difference but it is almost negligible. He says that healthy social relationships with those around you play a much more substantial role in determining happiness than economic standing. That's a good question but much harder to answer than it might at first appear because happiness metrics are extremely crude. Even so, I doubt the claim that the difference between "between the average level of happiness of high class and middle class people" is "almost negligable". However, it does stand to reason that economic standing is but one among many determinats of happiness. Social relationships are indeed critical. See also the thread I started "Happiness is a Warm Gun" for a discussion of the role of control of environment. And yet, economic standing can "buy" social relationships. Never mind the natural tendency to befriend the wealthy, just think about how much easier it is for someone with money to stay in contact with others from vacations to visit family and friends to social events to charity work. One way to describe the difference between "high class" and "middle class" is that the latter tend to be weded to their jobs whereas the former are more free to explore their lives meaning either more leisure time or choosing occupations that are interesting and meaningful rather than simply putting bread on the table. Similarly, control over the environment is easier with money. Edited by cortes on 04/19/08 - 07:51 PM
_____________________ Copyright (c) 2008 Hernan Cortes, Sociedad de los Conquistadores. cortes@conquistador.org http://www.conquistador.org

TheArchitect
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Posted 04/19/08 - 10:01 PM:	#5
Ah. That makes more sense. Also, I heard that people who are happy enough usually don't bother to go take a 'happiness test' at a local clinic or wherever (because they are happy enough to not think about those issues). It was mentioned in that book also. So he claims that the average real level of happiness is actually higher than the recorded one. What do you say about this?

swstephe
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Posted 04/19/08 - 10:47 PM:	#6
I'm pessimistic of studies that ask "are you as happy as you could be", (even the study casts a lot of doubt on taking objective measurements of subjective opinion). It is relative on so many levels. A wealthy person might assume they are as healthy as they can be because they can't imagine becoming happier by becoming wealthier, while someone poor might be able to image themselves happier. It is weighted by what is valued in their culture or upbringing and superstitions. I have been in cultures where people were predominantly poor and had no desire to become wealthy because wealthy people were despised by their culture for being generally arrogant and not generous with their family. It is also relative -- if you got rid of all the "rich" people, then the middle-class become the new "rich" and the new ultimate in happiness or alternatively you could say that everything is meaningless and nothing brings about true happiness because, once achieved, there is nothing more to look forward to ... A bit more accurate is to measure each person's perception of how happy they will be before and after. Look at some cognitive psychology work by Dan Gilbert, (http://blog.ted.com/2006/09/happiness_exper.php). He says that people are terrible at predicting how happy they will be, but that people find happiness in the expectation of happiness more than the results of their goal. So, success and money aren't the ends, but the means towards their goals -- as they have been told by their culture and the media. Those may be just as relatively valid as pursuing someone's love, or close relations and a large family. It is the hopes and expectations of obtaining happiness that brings about rewards. It seems the physical brain is basically throwing us cookies to keep us interested in achieving basic survival and existence.
_____________________ A software developer is someone who, when you tell them to "go to hell", they are more worried about the "goto".

cortes
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Posted 04/20/08 - 07:58 AM:	#7
Methodological problems probably go a long way toward explaining the wide variance of research results. One other problem not discussed is that these are correlational studies. It is entirely plausible that happy people are more successful. (In fact, I believe that the two are mutually reinforcing.) But there are other sources of variance including culture (as swstephe notes) and even personal differences. On the last point, one of my favorite book is "Who Am I" by Steven Reiss. (Summary attached.) And it is certanly true that the relationship between desire and happiness is a complicated one even apart from understanding your unique desires. Returning to the original question, though, there are other reasons than happines to pursue success and money, namely survival. The simplest example of money buying survival is health care. Another example is that crime is much higher in poor neighborhoods.
Attached Files: WhoAmI.pdf (34 KB, 4 downloads) _____________________ Copyright (c) 2008 Hernan Cortes, Sociedad de los Conquistadores. cortes@conquistador.org http://www.conquistador.org

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