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So I'm a lunatic now...

So I'm a lunatic now...

Strange
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Posted 04/05/08 - 05:00 AM: Subject: So I'm a lunatic now...	#1
Hey all, just registered here and I have somewhat of a prob. I've been having some frustration with some of the things that are going on in my life now, but when I try to talk to my family about it they just think my ideas and thoughts are "weird" "farout" and "negative" and they are saying I need psychiatric help I mean I try not to sound too negative when I talk to them but I guess the questions I ask are too hard for them to answer so they just label me crazy to be done with it I don't know, maybe I'll just dumb myself down or something and not tell people about what I think? Better than being put in an asylum no? Thoughts?

unenlightened
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Posted 04/05/08 - 05:19 AM:	#2
To call a thought or a person 'crazy' is simply to admit defeat in the process of understanding - crazy paving is paving that has no apparant order to it. It may be that your thoughts are indeed disordered, but here is a good place to explore whether or not this is the case, as there are some clever and open-minded folk around who will try to make sense of what you say, and do not think that any question that they cannot answer is a silly question. So welcome, and let's be having those weird thoughts.
_____________________ The observer is the observed. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

sensabile
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Posted 04/05/08 - 09:06 AM:	#3
Maybe you are crazy. Are you suffering from anxiety or depression? Do you find it difficult to perform ordinary tasks and find yourself neglecting your personal hygiene? Do motivational problems prevent you from doing things you ordinarily enjoy? If the answers to of these questions are all in the negative then you needn't worry in my opinion. As long as the social stigma you're encountering is in good humour then there isn't much of a problem is there? Just enjoy trying to solve the riddles in life rather than worry about whether your crazy.
_____________________ For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

mutemaler
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Posted 04/05/08 - 12:45 PM:	#4
Re: So I'm a lunatic now... Strange wrote: ...they are saying I need psychiatric help. I mean I try not to sound too negative when I talk to them but I guess the questions I ask are too hard for them to answer so they just label me crazy to be done with it. I don't know, maybe I'll just dumb myself down or something and not tell people about what I think? ... What kind of questions? mutemaler

MatthewbCurry
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Posted 04/05/08 - 02:01 PM:	#5
Perhaps some help would be a beneficial thing. Or maybe your parents are upset because you are not behaving the way that their image of ideal people are behaving.

Cadrache
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Posted 04/05/08 - 02:44 PM:	#6
Mmm.... "Thoughts".... My Mom babysits, oh, and I have 2 sisters. The youngest one is in this thought. Well, as you well know, there are so many shades of people. Some are black, white, asian, or slightly-tanned, and what-not. Well, in this case, we have 'white' children. Or more specifically Caucasian pre-dominance. My sister was all righteous after one child made mention that another child was darker then they are. "EVERYBODY IS THE SAME!", My sister preaches. Well that bloody well pissed me off. Teaching children to ignore what their eyes tell them exists. "X (no names) is indeed Darker." I say. This is followed by some inane response from my sister, claiming some anti-racist slogan, slightly mis-construed. And my last reponse. "Admitting that an individual has dark skin, like black, or brown is not wrong. Doing something bad about it is." What is neat, is my sister actually thought for a moment. She's one of those 'follow-the-masses-teachings-because-the-more-people-who-believe-it-mus t-mean-that-they-are more-right.' type. Even if they are definitely wrong. Or something like that. By merely advancing what society as a whole is told to do as a betterment, one can sometimes seem like you are going against what people are claiming. Or even merely pointing out that they haven't bothered to think why 'this is true'. Now here is a major warning. Don't pull yourself away from society too far. It can be better to merely find somebody to talk to that can understand some of what you are trying to say.

SIR2U
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Posted 04/05/08 - 06:53 PM:	#7
Or maybe your parents are upset because you are not behaving the way that their image of ideal people are behaving. Maybe they are the ones that need to go and get help.
_____________________ Unknown Alanic wiseman. "Ignorance and bad teeth have at least one thing in common. Keeping your mouth closed makes them both less obvious"

Paul
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Posted 04/05/08 - 11:58 PM:	#8
I recall that when I was a teenager talking openly with my parents caused them to think I was depressed and suggest I should get help. The solution is to stop talking openly. Just omit everything that isn't socially acceptable, and don't expect anyone to understand you, because nobody ever [fully] will. Talk to yourself, write, excrete something into a blog... there are ways to get your thoughts out without having to deal with the consequences of people misunderstanding. sensabile wrote: Maybe you are crazy. Are you suffering from anxiety or depression? Do you find it difficult to perform ordinary tasks and find yourself neglecting your personal hygiene? Do motivational problems prevent you from doing things you ordinarily enjoy? If the answers to of these questions are all in the negative then ... then you're either amongst the most perfect small percentage of people, or you're good at lying to yourself and forgetting things. Edited by Paul on 04/06/08 - 12:04 AM
_____________________ "If a statement is made, it is to be confronted with the totality of existing statements. If it agrees with them, it is joined to them; if it does not agree, it is called 'untrue' and rejected; or the existing complex of statements of science is modified so that the new statement can be incorporated." - Otto Neurath

Tobias
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Posted 04/06/08 - 08:07 AM:	#9
I wonder why ypour family would say that. Usually people don't want to hurt each other, so for them saying these things to you would probably be the cause of a misunderstanding. You don't want to hurt them either so either they do not understand what you mean or the things you say are indeed far out to them. In the first case try to tell them the things you want to tell them in a different way. Now usually people aren't total fools too so perhaps the things you say are indeed contrary to common sense. Now you may well be smarter than the rest of 'em, but you can still be wrong in your analysis. They intuitively know but can't make explicit what is incorrect and than they say things like your mad or that you are negative. I find that most people have a good grasp on what is reasonable, only not a good grasp on explaining why that is so. That might be the case here, so try to understand why they would say such things, why they think your ideas are far out. There might be something worthwhile in what they say no? regards Tobi
_____________________ The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you "Ik draag op mijn borsten een sleutel van goud"

sensabile
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Posted 04/06/08 - 11:10 AM: Subject: Oh the irony of your post...	#10
Paul wrote: ... then you're either amongst the most perfect small percentage of people, or you're good at lying to yourself and forgetting things. Please...Do you seriously think that the majority of people suffer from anxiety disorders and serious depression? Like a lot of people I feel anxious or depressed at times but that doesn't mean I have a disorder or a mental health issue, does it? I'm not talking about ordinary--dare I say "normal"--human reactions to particular events but the unusual, unhealthy responses that people with mental health problems create to deal with their situation.
_____________________ For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

Tobias
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Posted 04/06/08 - 12:34 PM:	#11
Look at the language in which these diagnosis is couched. Whenever you have some motivating issues you are deemed psychologically ill. Childeren who were 'difficult' first have ADHD now. People who used to be nervous have 'anxiety attacks'. What this language does is that it categorises and if you fall in a certain category you are eligable for help. The flip side is that if you do not take their 'help' you are irresposible and frowned upon. What Paul I think argues for and that is not such a bad argument in my view is the freedom to not be very social. Even in the OP arguing for a perspective is deemed 'crazy', in need of help etc. I don't think there is a straight dychotomy between people who are dperessed and mentally troubled and 'sane' people at all. regards Tobi
_____________________ The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you "Ik draag op mijn borsten een sleutel van goud"

Caldwell
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Posted 04/06/08 - 03:08 PM:	#12
I think this trait of openness, this capacity to listen and talk without judgment, is just like any other traits that are spread around among the population, like timidness, aggressiveness, activeness, or intelligence. Not everyone will have the same level of capacity, or have similar traits. And so, family members who are able to listen and understand might be present in one family but not in another. Ah, I remember also as a teen, the generation gap between teen and parents seemed to be so wide. We feel that if there's anyone who should understand us, it's them. But lo and behold! no set of parents came prepared with instruction on why teens, right after middle school, become monsters all of a sudden. And so, I think there's some resentment on the parts of parents who must deal with young people in their own household. "I've been a good parent, why did he or she turn like that?" There is always this "what did I do?" or "What happened to him?" And yet, this need to communicate amongst family members is always there, it's the most natural thing. And this phenomenon called "growing up" and development happen all the time, and yet somehow family members seem to be confused when that happens, too.
_____________________ I achieved nothing. ---The Optimist

sensabile
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Posted 04/06/08 - 03:24 PM:	#13
I think you have it a bit wrong Tobias. Motivational issues, for example, are seen as a symptom of some disorders. I doubt any credible psychologist thinks laziness is a psychological disorder itself but people who are deeply disturbed may appear lazy because they cannot find the energy to do things. Your example of attention deficit disorder is interesting. I don't think it is something that has been invented and simply become a popular excuse, but rather it is something that has become more prevalent due to the lifestyles that children tend to have now--highly debatable though! If Paul is arguing for "the freedom to not be very social" then I agree whole-heartedly; my point was not much different: that the original poster is likely not crazy in any definite sense (excusing the opinion of his parents, who probably aren't serious) and shouldn't worry too much about such things. Tobias wrote: I don't think there is a straight dychotomy between people who are dperessed and mentally troubled and 'sane' people at all. Not exactly, but it is often useful to distinguish between those that need help and those that neither need it nor want any.
_____________________ For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

Tobias
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Posted 04/07/08 - 12:38 AM:	#14
Well I myself was diagnosed with some unspecified disorder as a child of 4. Than they checked and I had ADHD. Couple of years later they found out, I have NLD. And guess what now nothing is wrong with me and no no medicine came into the picture. Diagnosing someone makes him or her subject to a certain regime. They are labels, categories to diagnose the behaviour of people, they are not fixed categories but fluid. So fluid that I tend to be rather sceptical of them.
_____________________ The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you "Ik draag op mijn borsten een sleutel van goud"

sensabile
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Posted 04/07/08 - 01:42 PM:	#15
I think you're right that there are problems with always trying to label people and categorise their behaviour. Another problematic consequence of always trying to categorise behaviour is that those that are labelled with some disorder tend to react by exhibiting more and more of the traits that are expected of someone with the particular disorder. This isn't to say however, that categorising behaviour in such a way isn't useful--far from it. It's far better that people try and take a constructive approach in trying to help someone who suffers from severe schizophrenia rather than simply thinking they are just "another crazy person" with no distinction--or go further back in time and people would be thinking they were possessed by the devil! The first step in trying to help someone is knowing what is wrong with them; and as it is, people tend to suffer from similar problems that often have similar "solutions"--"dampeners" is sometimes a more accurate word here, though. Some people are just fucked up.
_____________________ For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

Paul
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Posted 04/07/08 - 05:12 PM:	#16
sensabile wrote: Please...Do you seriously think that the majority of people suffer from anxiety disorders and serious depression? You wrote: "Are you suffering from anxiety or depression? Do you find it difficult to perform ordinary tasks and find yourself neglecting your personal hygiene? Do motivational problems prevent you from doing things you ordinarily enjoy?" You say nothing about disorders or serious depression. You cite things that happen to everybody often enough to one degree or another. Your diagnostic criteria fit everyone. Everyone has motivational problems that stop them from enjoying as much as they'd like to. Everyone sometimes finds it difficult to perform ordinary tasks. Everyone feels anxiety. Everyone feels depressed at times. My point is precisely that I don't think everyone suffers mental illness, which is why I object to your giving criteria which suggest that everyone does. You aren't a psychiatist, so stop trying to play one by telling the poster he's crazy if he's human.
_____________________ "If a statement is made, it is to be confronted with the totality of existing statements. If it agrees with them, it is joined to them; if it does not agree, it is called 'untrue' and rejected; or the existing complex of statements of science is modified so that the new statement can be incorporated." - Otto Neurath

sensabile
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Posted 04/07/08 - 06:02 PM:	#17
Paul, I think you're being unnecessarily rude and brass. Do you really think so little of me that you assume I would be stupid enough to be talking of things such as anxiety and depression in a common-place way rather than be talking of more serious cases of such things? My point was exactly that the poster probably isn't crazy. Perhaps you have serious motivational issues because you seem to have made little effort to interpret my posts with any kind of decency, let alone charity. Furthermore, feeling depressed or anxious from time to time, as everyone does (which you so keenly pointed out) is clearly not the same as suffering from anxiety or depression. Surely the word "suffering" should make it obvious enough that I wasn't talking about the kind of things that everybody goes through in the course of ordinary events but rather something that seriously impedes long-term well-being. Obviously people "suffer" when they feel anxious or depressed but that doesn't mean they are suffering from anxiety or depression. All in all, you've done a pretty fine job of misinterpreting what I said.
_____________________ For the winner there was a big three-legged cauldron to stand over a fire - it was worth a dozen oxen by the Greek's reckoning - and for the loser he brought forward a woman thoroughly trained in domestic work whom they valued at four oxen. -Homer's The Illiad Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? -Mark 9:50

lukera
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Posted 04/08/08 - 09:33 AM:	#18
ahh As an old Irish riddle goes: "lack of clarification leads to misinterpretation". Actually I just made it up..... but people will pay more attention to it if they think its Irish? No that doesn't make any sense. For me there are three ways of looking at this. 1) Most "normal" people think philosophically during dire situations, eg. one will contemplate their own or their loved one's mortality while grieving. Therefore to many people, philosophical thinking is a sign of a "negative" psychological state. 2) A negative psychological state may indeed be the cause of these philosophical questions. I personally turned to philosophy while I was at school. I had lost interest in my friends, as well as my hobbies, and I started to create my own questions about mortality, ethics and so on. I suppose I was "depressed" at the time but during this depression, I immersed myself in passionate and creative philosophical escapism. Due to these many nights pondering, I chose the university course that I do today (psychology) and i couldn't be happier. Now when I look back on this era, I know that I was definitely depressed but I wouldn't have admitted it at the time, so I can understand why anyone would have been concerned for me. 3) You've been sucked into the latest punk rock craze and you like the thought of people thinking your mentally unbalanced. You therefore accentuate your angst to a point where your parents think your crazy.

Tobias
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Posted 04/08/08 - 01:36 PM:	#19
Ohh I agree with that Sensabile, diagnosing may lead to treatment. That is of course clear. I think what I find worrying is that it can be used as a tactic to medicate people and get rid of 'em or utilise pretty severe tactics to change behaviour. That is all. But of ocurse I am all in favour of a schizofrenic to het the treatment he or she needs, same as people with severe depressions. It is just that in this day and age you seem so easily to contract another new and hip social or behavioural disorder. regards Tobi
_____________________ The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you The power of Kant compels you "Ik draag op mijn borsten een sleutel van goud"

optrader
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Posted 05/01/08 - 07:24 PM:	#20
As I have read through the posts, I have found a lot of "chatter". Without knowing more about Strange and his "frustration", how can anyone here make any deductions, formulate any ideas about Strange and his problem, and try to respond to his post? We don't know what things are happening in his life to cause his frustration. We don't know what ideas or thoughts he is expressing to his parents, nor do we have any background on his parents. I cannot respond to his post, other than to ask that he provide more information. I would expect that most of us have some frustration in our lives. The question we have to ask Strange concerns the nature and severity of his frustration. Only then can we begin to put it into some context and give him guidance.

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