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Self-referential sentences

Self-referential sentences

jsidelko
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Posted 10/26/09 - 05:44 PM:
Subject: Self-referential sentences

Self-referential sentences

“This sentence is false.” is considered to be an example of a self-referential sentence. However, such a sentence may not necessarily be referring to itself. It could be referring to a different sentence. Suppose the sentence was referring to an unstated sentence rather than itself. For example, if I were to point at a sentence from a list and state: “This sentence is false.”, I would not be making a self-referential statement that is both true and false. There is insufficient information to positively state that certain sentences are actually self-referential.WIthout such information are we justified in making such a claim.

thanatos

Arkady
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Posted 10/26/09 - 05:54 PM:	#2
This sentence is a sentence.
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Timothy
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Posted 10/26/09 - 07:19 PM:	#3
I guess theoreticians focus on the interesting case where "this sentence is false" yields paradox...
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Dragohunter
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Posted 10/27/09 - 09:24 AM:	#4
I posted a similar topic: http://forums.philosophyforums.com...ent-is-a-lie----32868.html though your sentence is questioning the truth values of a sentence rather than the meaning of what the person is implying. But I can't say the sentence is truly "self-referenctial" in the rigorous sense because the sentence is being used by a person to refer to something else, or intentionally giving a direction of fit to the world. Another explanation is that the sentence itself does not really contradict each other at all. For an example, the statement "It is true that two plus two equals four" contains no more information than the statement "two plus two equals four," because the phrase "it is true that..." is always implicitly there. And in the self-referential illusion, the phrase "it is true that..." is equivalent to "this whole statement is true and ...". It is a simple contradiction of the form "A and not A", and so it's false.
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xzJoel
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Posted 10/27/09 - 01:27 PM:	#5
Would you prefer "the sentence you are now reading is false."? Is your issue merely that "this" is ambiguous when it stands without a context? Doesn't ordinary usage lend itself to the idea that an unspecified "this" refers to the thing most obviously present? "This is going to hurt." "This is my first time here." "This sentence is six words long." "This is stupid." What is your criteria for justification? If I define "this" such that the "this" in "this sentence is false" is self referential, am I justified in saying that it is self referential?
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Schlitz
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Posted 10/28/09 - 11:06 PM:	#6
Self-reference isn't a big deal in its own right. There are many trivial but true self-referential sentences: "This sentence is in English," "This sentence features the word 'sentence'," "This sentence has 22 letters," and false self-referential sentences: "This sentence is in German," This sentence does not feature the word 'sentence,' "This sentence has 0 letters," and so on. Self-referential sentences get juicy only when you start using "is true" in them. Check this out for more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_paradox

Cadrache
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Posted 10/29/09 - 04:02 PM:	#7
The determination of whether or not a sentence is a fragment trumps self-referentiality.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

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Posted 10/29/09 - 04:53 PM:	#8
The sentence is self-referential only if you begin with the understanding that you are not communicating other facts outside of the actual sentence itself. If you're speaking a sentence and pointing here and there and changing your inflection, then you may be able to make any sentence mean almost anything. When I say, "this sentence is false," I'm pointing emphatically to my calculator at the word "sentence," clearly indicating that I mean "calculator" when I say "sentence." What's confusing is that I don't know what it means for a calculator to be false, but from my tone, I am absolutely certain of it.
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