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Rhetoric
Still the Bastard Child of Philosophy?

Rhetoric

cortes
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Posted 04/28/08 - 11:35 AM: Subject: Rhetoric	#1
I've taken an interest in Rhetoric lately. I just finished The 7 Triggers to Yes: The New Science Behind Influencing People's Decisions by Russell H. Granger. And one book on my to-be-read stack is The History and Theory of Rhetoric: An Introduction by James Herrick (which is a bit too much history and not enough theory). Both of these books claim that Rhetoric has been abandoned by the philosophy community. Questions: What good modern books are there on Rhetoric? Where does this discipline lay academically now? Has it been shunted off to Speech Communcations and Marketing Communications?
Copyright (c) 2008 Hernan Cortes, Sociedad de los Conquistadores. cortes@conquistador.org http://www.conquistador.org

jdrw
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Posted 04/28/08 - 12:57 PM:	#2
Related to philosophy, I've seen stuff on "Argumentation." Don't really know if it's considered Philosophy Proper or not. Also, there is a lot of stuff on "Informal" Logic or Informal Reasoning and Critical Thinking and Logical Fallacies. In my opinion, the vast majority of people would benefit far more from a reading or a course in these than in formal logic. I have the impression that in Philosophy rhetoric has a bad rep because it can be entirely about techniques for persuading others to accept one's claims irrespective of the truth of those claims--as for instance happens in advertising or political speeches and debate or with lawyers defending somebody they know to be guilty or representing somebody whose complaint they know to be false or unfounded. Books of the type I've mentioned include: Argumentation and Debate by Freely Informal Logic by Walton Philosophers Toolkit by Baggini and Fosl Thinking from A to Z by Warburton Attacking Faulty Reasoning by Damer Good luck, jd
OTOH I might be exhaustively wrong about everything I've ever thought--with the possible exception of this sentence.

cortes
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Posted 04/28/08 - 02:45 PM:	#3
Thanks, JD, I'll check those out. I also found this on my bookshelf: The Art of Persuasion: The National Review Rhetoric For Writers by Linda Bridges and William Rickenbacker.
Copyright (c) 2008 Hernan Cortes, Sociedad de los Conquistadores. cortes@conquistador.org http://www.conquistador.org

cortes
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Posted 04/28/08 - 02:55 PM:	#4
Informal Logic: A Handbook for Critical Argument by Douglas N. Walton appears to be a criticism of rhetoric. Argumentation and Debate by Austin J. Freeley appears to be a book on formal academic debate which, again, tends to discourage rhetoric (or at least forces it to be hidden). As a rule of thumb, a book on rhetoric will not seek to invalidate the "appeall to emotion" (pathos) or "appeal to authoirty" (ethos) forms of argument.
Copyright (c) 2008 Hernan Cortes, Sociedad de los Conquistadores. cortes@conquistador.org http://www.conquistador.org

Mariner
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Posted 04/28/08 - 04:59 PM:	#5
You have to take a look at Chaim Perelman's New Rhetoric, probably the most important work on the subject of the last century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Perelman
"In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't." -- Blaise Pascal "The more I am by myself and alone, the more I have come to love myths" -- Aristotle in his later years

cortes
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Posted 04/28/08 - 05:32 PM:	#6
Thanks, Marianer, that's what I've been looking for I think. http://www.amazon.com/New-Rhetoric-Treatise-Argumentation/dp/0268004463 http://www.amazon.com/Realm-Rhetoric-Chaim-Perelman/dp/0268016054
Copyright (c) 2008 Hernan Cortes, Sociedad de los Conquistadores. cortes@conquistador.org http://www.conquistador.org

cortes
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Posted 04/28/08 - 05:44 PM:	#7
His books led me to this list of books on (mostly) classical rhetoric: http://www.amazon.com/The-Greatest-Books-in-Rhetoric/lm/R15CL1QS8DFB0F And here is my own list on the wider categories of incluence, communications, and persuasion: http://www.amazon.com/Conquistador-Influence-Communication/lm/PZ2VTVLSY6K0
Copyright (c) 2008 Hernan Cortes, Sociedad de los Conquistadores. cortes@conquistador.org http://www.conquistador.org

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