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Question about Socrates
"to be afraid of death is only another form of thinking.."

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Question about Socrates
Rashory
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Posted 10/15/09 - 07:16 AM:
Subject: Question about Socrates
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Do you agree with Socrates when he said, To be afraid of death is only another form of thinking that one is wise when one is not.” What are your reasons?
eski
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Posted 10/15/09 - 10:13 PM:
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Not knowing the context, I disagree. It seems like he's saying only someone who knows what happens after one dies can truly be afraid of it. If this is not a straw man, it seems nonsensical to suggest that one need know something to be afraid of it. A person might very well be afraid of death simply because of it's ends are unknown to them. Hamlet, when he contemplated suicide, did not go through with it because he feared the possibility of an afterlife. That is to say, fear of the unknown isn't a claim on wisdom unless the person suggests they know for certain some bad end will come to them. Which is a sort of person I've never been acquainted with. It also seems contradictory to what I remember of Socrates. Who, if memory serves, suggested that death is either a dreamless sleep or a place to hang out with heroes and poets ect. It doesn't seem, to me, like Socrates would have both made a claim about death and then said those who made claims about death are foolish. I do, however, have a migraine and am less apt to making correct assertions.

gnostiagnostiagnostic- I know that I don't know but I don't know that.
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Posted 10/16/09 - 04:42 AM:
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Here is the complete quote:

"For let me tell you, gentlemen, that to be afraid of death is only another form of thinking that one is wise when one is not; it is to think that one knows what one does not know. No one knows with regard to death whether it is not really the greatest blessing that can happen to a man, but people dread it as though they were certain that it is the greatest evil, and this ignorance, which thinks that it knows what it does not, must surely be ignorance most culpable."

The point is not that one can only be afraid of death if one knows what it is -- after all, this is blatantly false. Instead, Socrates is asserting that there is no rational reason to be afraid of something when you don't know if it is good or bad. More specifically, he is saying that it is irrational to treat death as a certainly bad thing when it is not certain at all whether or not death is good or bad. It might be rational to wonder about and hope against the possibility that death will be bad, but acting as if we have knowledge that we do not have makes no sense.

What Socrates is getting at becomes clearer when we understand that the statement is part of his explanation as to why he will accept death if convicted of crimes against Athens. Here is what he says a sentence later:

"But I do know that to do wrong and to disobey my superior, whether God or man, is wicked and dishonorable, and so I shall never feel more fear or aversion for something which, for all I know, may really be a blessing, than for those evils which I know to be evils."

So we have something that may be good or bad balanced against something we (putatively) know to be wrong. This choice, Socrates thinks, should be an easy one. As we should never do anything that is wrong, we must choose the other path -- regardless of whether or not it is pleasant for us personally.

"The key to being a good manager is keeping the people who hate me away from those who are still undecided." --Casey Stengel
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Posted 10/16/09 - 05:20 AM:
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Postmodern Beatnik wrote:
Here is the complete quote:

"For let me tell you, gentlemen, that to be afraid of death is only another form of thinking that one is wise when one is not; it is to think that one knows what one does not know. No one knows with regard to death whether it is not really the greatest blessing that can happen to a man, but people dread it as though they were certain that it is the greatest evil, and this ignorance, which thinks that it knows what it does not, must surely be ignorance most culpable."

The point is not that one can only be afraid of death if one knows what it is -- after all, this is blatantly false. Instead, Socrates is asserting that there is no rational reason to be afraid of something when you don't know if it is good or bad. More specifically, he is saying that it is irrational to treat death as a certainly bad thing when it is not certain at all whether or not death is good or bad. It might be rational to wonder about and hope against the possibility that death will be bad, but acting as if we have knowledge that we do not have makes no sense.

What Socrates is getting at becomes clearer when we understand that the statement is part of his explanation as to why he will accept death if convicted of crimes against Athens. Here is what he says a sentence later:

"But I do know that to do wrong and to disobey my superior, whether God or man, is wicked and dishonorable, and so I shall never feel more fear or aversion for something which, for all I know, may really be a blessing, than for those evils which I know to be evils."

So we have something that may be good or bad balanced against something we (putatively) know to be wrong. This choice, Socrates thinks, should be an easy one. As we should never do anything that is wrong, we must choose the other path -- regardless of whether or not it is pleasant for us personally.


This must be from the Apology, right? As far as I remember, in the Phaedo he muses on talking with and questioning the great minds of history. Since he and Plato believed that this was the highest pursuit possible to man, he did see death as being a good thing. Freeing the soul from the disease of the body, to put it in a Platonic fashion.

The quote in question was actually put rather nicely in a Harry Potter book, of all places:

"To the well organised mind, death is but the next great adventure."

The Midnight Sun Never Sets.
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