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Property and Progress in Marx

Property and Progress in Marx

kevlar22
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Posted 10/28/09 - 01:01 PM: Subject: Property and Progress in Marx	#1
In the Manifesto of the Communist party, Marx talks in depth about the bourgeoisie and the proleteriat and property and progress. It definitely seems that Marx was trying to solve the problem of history by solving the problem of scarcity. How does Marx see the relationship between property and progress? Property seems a bit more understandable, but was Marx seeking to form the ultimate human progress? To my understanding was this ultimate progress the end to the progression of human history? Also from my reading of the Manifesto, even though Marx explicitly criticizes capitalism, there is minute evidence that Marx was a fan of capitalism. Why would someone who writes the Communist Manifesto secretly be a fan of capitalism?

Cadrache
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Posted 10/28/09 - 03:49 PM:	#2
I'll have to see if I can find a quote from Peter F. Hamilton tonight...
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Ghosthack
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Posted 11/04/09 - 03:06 PM:	#3
kevlar22 wrote: It definitely seems that Marx was trying to solve the problem of history by solving the problem of scarcity. Marx felt that the Hegelian view of history had passed over the true cause of history which was economic. Hegel had sought an end to history through a universal democratic state that would recognize each individual in their universality. In Marx's opinion, Hegel had not given enough attention to the economic causes of history. Marx's dialectical materialism was to give the correct account of historical progression. It was not enough for man to live in a universal democratic state, he must also live within the confines of a just economic system that does not alienate him. kevlar22 wrote: How does Marx see the relationship between property and progress? Simply, to accomplish the End of History private property must be abolished. kevlar22 wrote: Property seems a bit more understandable, but was Marx seeking to form the ultimate human progress? To my understanding was this ultimate progress the end to the progression of human history? A communist society would be the End of History. The End of History can only come once man is satisfied. This will happen in a communist society.

sheps
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Posted 11/04/09 - 03:40 PM:	#4
kevlar22 wrote: In the Manifesto of the Communist party, Marx talks in depth about the bourgeoisie and the proleteriat and property and progress. It definitely seems that Marx was trying to solve the problem of history by solving the problem of scarcity. How does Marx see the relationship between property and progress? Property seems a bit more understandable, but was Marx seeking to form the ultimate human progress? To my understanding was this ultimate progress the end to the progression of human history? In Marx's view, any society with private property would inevitably lead to economic inequality, something he did not think was natural. He didn't even think of history as a 'problem,' just an inevitable path towards Communism. Property, in his opinion, was tied up with a ruling class and an oppressed class, and could therefore not be progressive, as he thought that Communism was the end of the road which we are all progressing along, the 'end of history.' kevlar22 wrote: Also from my reading of the Manifesto, even though Marx explicitly criticizes capitalism, there is minute evidence that Marx was a fan of capitalism. Why would someone who writes the Communist Manifesto secretly be a fan of capitalism? The only part where Marx even comes close to 'praising' Capitalism, to my mind, is in the third part (if memory serves) where he talks about the need for proliterian parties to support liberal and progressive bourgeois parties in their attempts to overthrow feudal monarchies in Europe. This is because he viewed bourgeois capitalism as a necessary part of the historical process, and therefore any party looking to advance along that process should be supported, EVEN IF they are capitalist. Also, I believe (though I'm not sure that this is in the Manifesto) that he does say that capitalism performs a vital function in the historical process as it develops the scientific technology required for Communism to work. Capitalism obviously developed the technology to increase surplus value (profit); Communists will use it to feed and cloth people in a future Communist society.
The Midnight Sun Never Sets.

stax
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Posted 11/06/09 - 04:23 AM:	#5
kevlar22 wrote: In the Manifesto of the Communist party, Marx talks in depth about the bourgeoisie and the proleteriat and property and progress. It definitely seems that Marx was trying to solve the problem of history by solving the problem of scarcity. How does Marx see the relationship between property and progress? Property seems a bit more understandable, but was Marx seeking to form the ultimate human progress? To my understanding was this ultimate progress the end to the progression of human history? Also from my reading of the Manifesto, even though Marx explicitly criticizes capitalism, there is minute evidence that Marx was a fan of capitalism. Why would someone who writes the Communist Manifesto secretly be a fan of capitalism? More property= progress. Essentially that's it. The more wealth one has, the more they can invest into private property to increase their wealth further, et cetera. We had feudalism, now we're in capitalism, then a transitional phase of tribal socialism, then finally- the ultimate form is socialism/communism at the end of our development, when all people have discovered their true consciousness.
"Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills." Arthur Schopenhauer "To convince someone of the truth, it is not enough to state it, but rather one must find the path from error to truth." Ludwig Wittgenstein "Philosophy is like trying to open a safe with a combination lock: each little adjustment of the dials seems to achieve nothing, only when everything is in place does the door open." Ludwig Wittgenstein

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