Proof that numbers exist: Philosophy Forums

Philosophy Forums » Logic and Philosophy of Math » Proof that numbers exist » Proof that numbers exist

Proof that numbers exist

Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6

Proof that numbers exist

ManiacJack
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 29, 2008
Location: Statosphere, Earth

Total Topics: 78
Total Posts: 1052

1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 07/05/09 - 02:05 PM: Subject: Proof that numbers exist	#1
Can someone please give me a proof that numbers exist? It is that in my journey through life and all the talk of numbers and whatnot, I realized the other day that I have never seen number. I have seen squiggles, and many attest to the squiggle being number, but it appears that many cultures have used many different squiggles throughout time; and so seeing that as such, are we sure that numbers are not something subjective- that is, a matter of opinion because there is no proof for their existence?
Space Oil Peaked. Will Smuggle Priceless Astral Goods for Ultimate Price.

Aetixintro
Concepts and descriptions

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Jul 12, 2008

Total Topics: 35
Total Posts: 391

Posted 07/05/09 - 02:51 PM:	#2
I've met a professor of philosophy who has done some work in the philosophy of mathematics and he claims that numbers don't exist. I can't come up with the arguments for pros and cons because I don't know them, but one thing is for sure, you're in your full right to ask. It's reasonable to ask the question. I'll follow this. Is there anyone who has some knowledge on this? Cheers!
Efficacy of "for since it is at present manifest to me that even bodies are not properly known by the senses nor by the faculty of imagination, but by the understanding alone" - Descartes, Meditation II I'm always wanting more, Anything I haven't got, Everything, I want it all, I just can't stop - The Cure, Want

ViperThunder
Aspirant

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jul 02, 2009

Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 36

Posted 07/05/09 - 03:23 PM:	#3
This is over my head. I don't understand what you mean by "numbers don't exist"! We invented numbers to help us count things!

keda
Ijon Tichy

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jul 25, 2005
Location: Finland

Total Topics: 38
Total Posts: 3642

Posted 07/05/09 - 03:34 PM:	#4
Numbers are not things that can be said to exist or not in the first place, but denoting the quantity of a set of things.
All about making money Free Europe Now How to fix your country In thought, men distance themselves from nature in order thus imaginatively to present it to themselves--but only in order to determine how it is to be dominated - Adorno and Horkheimer

unenlightened
everything is...

Usergroup: Administrators
Joined: Aug 10, 2007
Location: Wales

Total Topics: 36
Total Posts: 3286

Posted 07/05/09 - 04:46 PM:

"One is one and all alone and ever more shall be so."

how does one prove the existence of anything?

ManiacJack wrote:
I realized the other day that I have never seen number.

Seeing is proving?

ManiacJack wrote:
I have seen squiggles...

What, a number of squiggles? shocked

There is not in existence some other thing called 'five', but only the beans in a relationship of multiplicity. It's an adjective, not a noun.

It makes sense to say that there exists no largest prime number, or that there exists a number between 40 and 50 that is exactly divisible by nine. But again these are statements about relationships of properties, not 'things'.

...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti

"Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

sqeecoo
Assistant Professor

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 05, 2007

Total Topics: 2
Total Posts: 375

Posted 07/06/09 - 01:35 AM:	#6
Numbers are a formal man made system. Their existence is as real as street-names.

aufbau87
Student

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jun 08, 2008
Location: Southern California

Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 62

Posted 07/06/09 - 07:48 PM:	#7
Well, first we must ask what does it mean to assert something exists. W.V. Quine's view is that to be is to be the value of a bound variable. And we are committed to the existence of things that must take the place of the variables in our theories if they are assumed to be true. One theory is that there is a thing x such that x is less than 5 and more than 3. Since we affirm this proposition, and its admissible values are numbers, we are committed to the existence of numbers. Even more, numbers don't really exist, since talk of numbers can be reduced to statements that only refer to sets (or classes - the difference between sets and classes are immaterial). So, the question of the existence of numbers can be shifted to the question of the existence of classes. So, the "real" question is: do classes exist? Again, Quine's argument is that they are required for our accepted theories of science (in the widest sense) - therefore, they exist just as much as atoms do.

ManiacJack
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 29, 2008
Location: Statosphere, Earth

Total Topics: 78
Total Posts: 1052

Posted 07/06/09 - 07:55 PM:	#8
My language is my ontology- the same applies to all of mankind.
Space Oil Peaked. Will Smuggle Priceless Astral Goods for Ultimate Price.

swstephe
Tenured Poster

Usergroup: Moderators
Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Location: borneo island

Total Topics: 28
Total Posts: 3304

Posted 07/06/09 - 08:23 PM:	#9
Syntactically, numbers are adjectives. They are "signifiers" which describe properties of something else, (or a collection of something else -- do collections exist?). They don't exist any more than "red" or "blurry" exist. Unless you get into "qualia", of course.
Ethics is the measuring of morality. Morality is the measuring of good. Good is the measuring of benefit. Benefit is the measure of values.

ManiacJack
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 29, 2008
Location: Statosphere, Earth

Total Topics: 78
Total Posts: 1052

Posted 07/06/09 - 10:08 PM:	#10
Well, do you exist? I mean, "swstephe" is just a signifier.
Space Oil Peaked. Will Smuggle Priceless Astral Goods for Ultimate Price.

Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6

Sorry, you don't have permission to post. Log in, or register if you haven't yet.