Pro and Con Arguments of (Assisted) Suicide

Pro and Con Arguments of (Assisted) Suicide
Aetixintro
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Posted Feb 2, 2010 - 6:01 PM:
Subject: Pro and Con Arguments of (Assisted) Suicide
Hello PF'ers! smiling face

I've made this topic because I think there are some (really) disgusting or stupid arguments against (Assisted) Suicide.

First of all, those who seriously argue for the right to (Assisted) Suicide (A)S seems to have the greatest integrity of the subject they're speaking of. Necessarily, those who oppose it, are on the outside of the situation, but may very well have been considering (Assisted) Suicide in the past.

Now, one person, Simone, argues in favour:
1. People like to have the possibility to die, (A)S, if they are in great pain and are bound to die (terminally ill).
2. People like to have the possibility to die, (A)S, if they are losing their mind (fx. Alzheimer's).
3. People like to have the possibility to die, (A)S, if they are in great mental pain/distress to which there's no hope and there's no-one willing to significantly change the situation.
4. Combination of two or more of 1., 2. and 3.
5. [Edit:] People should have the possibility to (A)S so that people can't be kept as virtual slaves anymore or forced to compromise on themselves to that extent.
6. [Edit:] People should have the possibility to (A)S so that people aren't forced to compromise on themselves to any extent (by 1., 2., 3. and 4.), calling the situation for what it is, making the possibility to (A)S possibly less restrictive.
7. [Edit:] There's more dignity in dying reasonably healthy and able (by/implied by X. in post #4).
8. [Edit:] If I have no constructive role in society, being an adult, and I have the urge to commit suicide. It should be my right to commit this suicide or else I might get involved with illegal guns and homicide(s). Being an adult involves knowing what's best for yourself as you are closest to yourself and clearly then, I'm ethically/lawfully entitled to choose my destiny of suicide in my own opinion. Therefore, also, I demand it!
9. [Edit:] We should allow people to die by 1. and 2., possibly also by 3., 5. and 6. because it's the decent approach to the matters (by Apathy Kills in post #18). There's a certain power in using the word decent here and I'd like you to contemplate this.
10. [Edit:] The fact that people are driven down to basic instincts, into corners of despair, forced to compromise on themselves is necessarily leading to unnecessary friction and unhealthy tendencies in society. (A)S should therefore be allowed! (I think this is slightly different than 4. and 5.)
11. [Edit:] Acknowledging point 5. of the opposition, I do still think the defacto performance of society in telling people to "get out of the way" in a possibly hidden and cruel manner (if nothing else then implicitly by use of threats and fear) is true whether this is unexpressed or not (because I can think of such thought as having existence, plausibly).

One person, Peter, argues against:
1. People should not have the possibility to die, (A)S, because of (my) (presumably) view of the sanctity of life.
2. People should not have the possibility to die, (A)S, because (unfounded) "it's the wrong signal to give".
3. [Edit:] In the case of older people, they may (mis-) perceive their burden on family and friends in an unproportionate way and thus wrongly requesting, wanting or actually committing suicide.
4. [Edit:] There simply is no unbearable/painful situation and therefore all suicides are wrong.
5. [Edit:] By allowing people suicide, one may give a (possibly subtle) signal that people should "get out of the way" and consequently devalue the human life. Therefore, suicide should not be legal. (This may likely be the real argument of 2. while 2. is just a "social" signal of ambiguity.)
6. [Edit:] By denying people (assisted) suicide, one (unfounded) prevents possibly a number of suicides. Therefore, suicide should not be legal. (By atightropewalker in post #47.)
(Note. If one allows one suicide, it doesn't necessarily mean that you allow one more suicide. It can be that one "palliative" assisted suicide is prevented or that one actual suicide is prevented. Either way, assisted suicides can't be said to necessarily have a bearing on the total number of suicides, actual or possible.)

It seems to me to be common to somehow discredit the person who wants to commit suicide by being in doubt of the person's intelligence, sanity or cognition of circumstances.

I'd like you to add arguments to either of these two people. I'd also like you to list possible hidden motives with either of these two persons.

Like this:
Hidden, Peter, "I like the fact that people die in severe pain and I also like the melancholy of thinking so."
Hidden, Peter, "I like the fact that people go through great pains before getting finally getting it done in all sorts of funny ways. Heck, it's a jungle out there and I'm an explorer!"
[Edit:] Hidden, Peter, If we give people the possibility to (A)S, people can't be kept as virtual slaves anymore or forced to compromise on themselves to that extent.
Consequently, I also like you to note the possibilities of Simone having hidden motives and the very nature of them.

PS: I also note that the President of the Norwegian Doctor's Association is against (A)S and that other doctors (tossing in the "authority" and "status") also are usually in favour, citing Hippocratic Oath. This is in no way anything objectional and one is entitled the view, but still... (and silent waters run deep).

PS2: If I, by this, get to inform people and also get to sway opinion into being in favour of (A)S, taking the correct (ethical) view on the issue according to myself, I'll be a very happy person!

(Cheers!)

Edited by Aetixintro on Feb 12, 2010 - 8:51 AM
timw
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Posted Feb 2, 2010 - 7:53 PM:

I don't know if there's a right to commit suicide - I don't think there is. Question: can there be a right to assisted suicide, or to assist in a suicide, if there is no right to suicide?





Aetixintro
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Posted Feb 2, 2010 - 8:19 PM:

timw, I think it's implicit that if you in any way "organised" commit suicide, there are aides who are liable to the assisting of that suicide. Formally speaking, the prohibition of suicide is only for the sake of archiving. I mean, do "you" want to put people who've committed attempted suicides behind bars? I really don't think so.
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Posted Feb 2, 2010 - 8:31 PM:

Why would anyone be against something that is merely one and only one's business baffles me. And don't tell me that his family will be hurt, oh really? What about watching your great grand father wallow away in a pile of his own shit and piss barely being able to talk? Does that feel warm inside? Guess not.
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Posted Feb 2, 2010 - 9:56 PM:

My question was about rights and nothing else. If you think you have a right to commit suicide, please make the case. It's not an easy argument; I don't think there is one - the fact that you can commit suicide notwithstanding. Absent a right to commit suicide, there can be no right to be assisted with suicide, or to assist in a suicide, yes?

Nor does a right to commit suicide, by itself, establish any assistance rights.
Aetixintro
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Posted Feb 3, 2010 - 5:45 AM:

Another one:
Hidden, Peter, "If we give people the possibility to (A)S, people can't be kept as virtual slaves anymore or forced to compromise on themselves to that extent."

Else:
"Open", Simone, "People should have the possibility to (A)S so that people can't be kept as virtual slaves anymore or forced to compromise on themselves to that extent."

Also:
"Open", Simone, "People should have the possibility to (A)S so that people aren't forced to compromise on themselves to any extent, calling the situation for what it is, making the possibility to (A)S possibly less restrictive."

You?
Benkei
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Posted Feb 3, 2010 - 6:09 AM:

Your description of AS includes euthanesia. Lowering the pain and suffering of patients is clearly within the purview of doctors as it's considered palliative healthcare. Euthanesia is sometimes the only way to provide such palliative care to avoid suffering.

Peter fails to give a good argyment as to why human life is sanctified but other animal life isn't.

The right to srlf-determination implies we should be able to dtermine our own deaths.
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Posted Feb 3, 2010 - 8:59 AM:

Benkei wrote: Your description of AS includes euthanasia. Lowering the pain and suffering of patients is clearly within the purview of doctors as it's considered palliative healthcare.


I am not sure how much of the idea of assisted suicide, its various routes to accomplish it, who can or cannot assist is universal in congruity. Here in the USA it changes from state to state as to the laws that govern such assistance. Having said that it is well known that Doctors prescribe medications that over time or by polying can accomplish death.

Benkei wrote: Euthanasia is sometimes the only way to provide such palliative care to avoid suffering.

I agree but that does not make assisted suicide legal at least here in the USA. There are functions that Hospice provides that are induced comas and such but not to the point of death.


Benkei wrote: Peter fails to give a good argument as to why human life is sanctified but other animal life isn't.


I have never understood why we provide animals the right to die with dignity and not humans.

Benkei wrote: The right to self-determination implies we should be able to determine our own deaths.


Yes it does. The question for me becomes "Is suicide the easy mans way out or the brave mans way in?" For me there is a contract that you sign with 'your god' that you are here to live until it is your time to die, decided by both you and 'your god'. If you break the contract by committing suicide or worse assisting in anothers suicide you break that contract and go to whatever your hell is.
Aetixintro
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Posted Feb 3, 2010 - 10:07 AM:

Another one for:
"Open", Simone, If I have no constructive role in society, being an adult, and I have the urge to commit suicide. It should be my right to commit this suicide or else I might get involved with illegal guns and homicide(s). Being an adult involves knowing what's best for yourself as you are closest to yourself and clearly then, I'm ethically/lawfully entitled to choose my destiny of suicide in my own opinion. Therefore, also, I demand it!
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Posted Feb 3, 2010 - 10:47 AM:

"Is suicide the easy mans way out or the brave mans way in?"


But is this relevant? Whether the choice is made out of cowardice or made out of bravery, the point would be that it is his or her choice to make. If God then decides to punish him that seems a bit out of our league to assess with any certainty. wink
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