Private experiences: Philosophy Forums

Philosophy Forums » Guest Speakers » John Searle » Private experiences » Private experiences

Private experiences

Page: 1 2

Private experiences

Banno
Old goat

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
Location: Oz

Total Topics: 111
Total Posts: 6303

Posted 10/07/09 - 06:59 PM: Subject: Private experiences	#1
Good Sir, in Speech Acts you set out the "Principle of Expressibility", that whatever can be meant can be said. I wonder if you could comment on your opinion of this Principle now, in the light of more recent philosophical developments. In particular, are there private experiences which are inexpressible? Is this how qualia should be understood? Or are such things incompatible with the Principle of Expressibility? Are there any inexpressible, subjective experiences?
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

John Searle
Honored Guest

Usergroup: Guest Speakers
Joined: Oct 13, 2009

Total Topics: 0
Total Posts: 8

2 of 2 people found this post helpful Posted 10/23/09 - 03:33 PM:	#2
The principle of expressibility is intended to be trivially true. It just says that anything you can mean, you can give expression to. And if the language you already speak doesn’t allow for expressing that meaning, you can always invent a new word, and use it to express that meaning. The principle of expressibility does not imply that anything you can mean can be understood by others. It just means that anything you can mean it is possible to give an expression to. So on this account, nothing is inexpressible, though that principle allows for the possibility that some things may be incommunicable from one person to another. I do not discuss that issue.

Willowz
Wilson wants a smile.

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 14, 2008

Total Topics: 19
Total Posts: 634

Posted 10/24/09 - 10:04 AM:	#3
With all due respect... I must ask this question. In your opinion, could a private language actually "exist"? Edited by Willowz on 10/24/09 - 10:11 AM
This song will prepare you for a good smile.

Cadrache
Tenured Poster

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Dec 09, 2006
Location: AB, Canada

Total Topics: 104
Total Posts: 2644

Posted 10/27/09 - 07:12 PM:	#4
If I may? I would still likely claim that 'private language' still does not exist per se. The difficulty with language is that large swaths of arguments tends towards the 'thought' process or the reality-dysfunction. We have no real argument for a relationship that exempts the turin mechanism.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Willowz
Wilson wants a smile.

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 14, 2008

Total Topics: 19
Total Posts: 634

Posted 10/27/09 - 07:21 PM:	#5
Yes, the above is a strict use of the term "language". But "language" is a form of encoding information... and I guess a "private language" would not be decodable.
This song will prepare you for a good smile.

Cadrache
Tenured Poster

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Dec 09, 2006
Location: AB, Canada

Total Topics: 104
Total Posts: 2644

Posted 10/28/09 - 02:57 PM:	#6
Maybe. The thing with 'decodable' is that it assumes a specific platform in which you translate something to. When a baby learns to speak and wants a glass of milk a large portion will tend to use a phonetic akin to 'gha.' with a reaching motion. The parents then decode the mere action to be the private language of the child. PS: The 'gha' might merely be a local linguistic phenomena.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Willowz
Wilson wants a smile.

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 14, 2008

Total Topics: 19
Total Posts: 634

Posted 11/14/09 - 09:46 PM:	#7
So if I create a new word for an experience and do not share it with other people, would that mean that I have a private language? Or is it that, as long as nobody else understands this "new" rule(definition of the new word describing a particular experience), the new word doesn't count as a private language? In other words if I don't join the game am I still playing? Edited by Willowz on 11/14/09 - 09:55 PM
This song will prepare you for a good smile.

Cadrache
Tenured Poster

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Dec 09, 2006
Location: AB, Canada

Total Topics: 104
Total Posts: 2644

Posted 11/18/09 - 02:04 PM:	#8
Is there a pattern or reasoning behind the new word? There is always the classic "I did a Homer." (Simpsons, cartoon.)
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Willowz
Wilson wants a smile.

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 14, 2008

Total Topics: 19
Total Posts: 634

Posted 11/18/09 - 05:26 PM:	#9
Yes, creating the new word I still had to resort to the rules of the public word game, quite obviously. Assuming the previous is true, would that mean that every new word created, can never get out of the public word game? Finally, what was Wittgenstein referring to when he said that everything that was not mentioned in the Tractates, was the most important part of his work? Some of his ideas seem absurd. Such as, that words don't derive there meaning from ideas or objects. Well, how did language start in the first place? Was every word right away discovered? Thanks for any replies. EDIT: Sorry Cad. I'm not good with the simpsons.
This song will prepare you for a good smile.

Cadrache
Tenured Poster

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Dec 09, 2006
Location: AB, Canada

Total Topics: 104
Total Posts: 2644

Posted 11/19/09 - 04:10 PM:	#10
what was Wittgenstein referring to when he said that everything that was not mentioned in the Tractates, was the most important part of his work? We are always taught by people that knowledge should be attained in such a way that the existence of the person teaching is non-essential. Just like God. Things happen without him. From the general philosphy forums - A statement I made concerning absurdity. My statement. What is behind my reply to Unenlightened is a fundamental problem pertaining to how we pose and percieve the athiest/thiest arguments. Large proponents to this 'endless' argument is summed up outside of those two statements. Even if I spent the time studying all of the tractulus I doubt I could glimpse a portion of what is 'not within' the words.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Page: 1 2

Sorry, you don't have permission to post. Log in, or register if you haven't yet.