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Please, share your concept of reality

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Please, share your concept of reality
TempletonEsquire
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Posted 06/10/09 - 12:09 PM:
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#21
I'd have to side with the dualists, although I think the non-physical is vastly unexplored compared to the physical, since the physical is boringly predictable. And it seems that whenever someone explores a non-physical life, they either:

A. Use it to gain competitive advantage in the physical reality
B. End up ostracized for being looney
C. unable to differentiate between the physical and non-physical realities

It seems rare to find a honest account of non-physical life, maybe that is due to the nature of it.
Vague Abstraction
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Posted 06/10/09 - 02:15 PM:
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#22
Reality is the default state. It is impossible not to have it.

Nobody has control over it. Nobody knows just what it means or what the nature of reality is.

When people say things like "nothing exists," I am not pleased. How, HOW, could nothing exist? The fact that existence exists is one of the only axioms I am sure of.

Reality cannot be created or destroyed.
180 Proof
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Posted 06/10/09 - 03:50 PM:
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#23

Willowz wrote:
So out of reason something exists...


No. But there are reasons which account for there being "something rather than nothing" ...


"It cannot be transcended" what does that mean?


If reality is whole, then no part (e.g. reason, knowledge, etc) that belongs to (this) whole can be equivalent to, let alone greater than (i.e. exceed, transcend) it.


No better rock can be created than that individual rock, that exists?


This question -- and the train of thought that follows -- makes no sense in the context of my explicitly anti-platonic conception of "the real" (re: distractions from/obfuscations of ... "by positing 'other realities', or 'doubling the real' with 'a realer real' ...")


The question isn't "Which explanations do I believe?" but rather "Which explanations do I least disbelieve?"

Absence of evidence THAT MUST BE THERE (i.e. implied by any claim, concept, or (its) predicates, that affects changes in/to the world) entails evidence of absence.

[What cannot be done?[What cannot be hoped?[What cannot be known?]]]
Wosret
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Posted 06/10/09 - 05:07 PM:
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#24
I think that things are overcomplicated by many. I think that we're simply a bunch of silly apes, which have developed some amazing socializing techniques, and cooperating skills.

Where'd it all come from originally? I don't pretend to know, but I'm fairly confident that it wasn't some supernatural guy, let alone some supernatural guy that has a special interest in a certain silly ape species on a small planet, on the edge of the milky-way galaxy.

I tend to think that if existence had a beginning at all, then it was just some natural, material event. I think this because it has been every single time so far. This of course doesn't make it necessarily the case that this time won't be different -- but it isn't necessarily the case that the next time you drop an object with mass that it falls toward the centre of the earth. All because this has happened every time thus far, doesn't mean that next time it won't just float there, or fly upward, amirite?

I also know that nature exists, and know that the material exists. I know because of the works of some rather impressively intelligent and inquisitive ape women and men that these things do strange, stunning, counter-intuitive, and amazing things. Many are so counter-intuitive, and like nothing we can relate to, that they are nearly impossible to grasp to a large degree. When I see people say "that must have been magic/supernatural", or call any strange, or unexplained event as supernatural, or magic, I hear them telling me that they have a complete knowledge of nature. One that allows for them to know what can and cannot happen by natural means, which would allow them to declare that something must therefore be supernatural. Because every time that people have done this, it was revealed to be natural, and at no time was it the case that something was thought to be natural, but was discovered to be supernatural.

"If you've got any last words, say 'em now." - Nadie.

"I am Horo the Wise." - Horo the Wise.


PsychVegas
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Posted 06/10/09 - 05:11 PM:
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#25
Willowz wrote:

Why is it unobtainable?

I just wanted to add, that I don't want to talk about the way the mind describes reality. Rather the objects that are there and are still there even without consciously looking at them.[/u]

So out of reason something exists..."It cannot be transcended" what does that mean? No better rock can be created than that individual rock, that exists? What especially interests me in this is, what happens just before the transcendation of the future individual rock(from whatever dimension it appears? I don't care...)? What makes it exist?


This is similar to the discussion if a tree falls in a remote part of a forest does it make a sound. It can also be related to the "peek a boo" game where a child finally develops object permanence and realizes just because they can't see an object doesn't mean it no longer exists.

Knowing all of reality, i.e. being omniscient is unobtainable based on human limitations. However, something as simple as object permanence addresses your question regarding objects existing without consciously looking at them. We can successfully extrapolate that objects "exist" outside our conscious awareness. An example would be a fish at the bottom of the ocean has no concept of the moon, yet the moon exists. As humans, we are fortunate that we can realize and accept there are things that exist of which we are unaware.

What makes it (a rock) exist is the big mystery that has no answer. It is the game of asking what caused the earth, the big bang, well what caused the big bang, God, well what caused God and on and on and on and on. There is no answer.
Willowz
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Posted 06/11/09 - 12:09 AM:
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#26
180 Proof wrote:
<p></p>
<p>No. But there are <em>reasons which account for</em> there being "something rather than nothing" ...</p>

Thanks for the reply 180 Proof. This is how I understand what you say: there is no one great reason for the reason that everything exist's. Something exists out of the accumulation of different reason's... What makes me think is, how can there be many reasons without a greater reason. Sorry If I'm not getting your point, or am not open minded enough, just learning.

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oag
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Posted 06/13/09 - 02:44 AM:
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#27
Willowz wrote:
Hello,
Could you share, what kind of philosophy you belive in, that explains reality?
Explains reality in what way? Reality is simply that which you find to be real as opposed to that which you decide is imaginative, fictional, etc.
I do have some opinions and ideas, but I'm sure that someone before me would have came to same or better conclusions.
When you say that someone else has come up with the same or better conclusions do you mean to suggest that someone else could have a better handle on reality than you have? All you are going to get from them is their own thoughts and opinions on reality and it is going to fall back upon you to decide which ones are the same, better or worse than your own. In the end the only reality you can ever concern yourself with is yours. We can hypothesize an objective reality, free of bias, predisposition, etc. We can all take a stab at what that might be like but it is always going to be based on how each of us see reality in the first place so any one of us could be right or wrong and you might be right more often than someone who seems to you to have "better" thoughts and opinions.

When someone says that X is the way that it really is they are just guessing. You could come along and say that Y is the way that it really is and be just as correct because there are no means to actually determine how it really is.

Whenever anyone says anything about anything they are sharing their concept of reality. If I say that jumping off of a tall building will kill you that is simply a statement of how I see things. It is something I learned in my journey through life. I have every reason to believe that you have learned the same thing. If I say that GWB was a lousy president that is also just something I learned along the way. You might see it differently. Both are beliefs/opinions/thoughts that I have. If I explain them and they make sense to you perhaps I can change your view of reality, make it seem to you to be better. It may or may not be but as long as you are happy with the results that is all that matters.
Willowz
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Posted 06/13/09 - 03:51 AM:
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#28
Sorry I couldent get back earlier, I am having problems with my ISP.
PsychVegas wrote:

This is similar to the discussion if a tree falls in a remote part of a forest does it make a sound. It can also be related to the "peek a boo" game where a child finally develops object permanence and realizes just because they can't see an object doesn't mean it no longer exists.

Knowing all of reality, i.e. being omniscient is unobtainable based on human limitations. However, something as simple as object permanence addresses your question regarding objects existing without consciously looking at them. We can successfully extrapolate that objects "exist" outside our conscious awareness. An example would be a fish at the bottom of the ocean has no concept of the moon, yet the moon exists. As humans, we are fortunate that we can realize and accept there are things that exist of which we are unaware.

What makes it (a rock) exist is the big mystery that has no answer. It is the game of asking what caused the earth, the big bang, well what caused the big bang, God, well what caused God and on and on and on and on. There is no answer.

I'd think that the tree make's a sound, and it is observable just by past and present. Existence can be proven but the creation of existence is not so easily. At the moment there are hypothesis, which I am trying to get acquainted.
EDIT:The important this is this: It does not matter if the tree makes sounds or even exploads. The point is it does not even have to prove it's own existance. It exists and that's it.


oag wrote:
Explains reality in what way? Reality is simply that which you find to be real as opposed to that which you decide is imaginative, fictional, etc.
When you say that someone else has come up with the same or better conclusions do you mean to suggest that someone else could have a better handle on reality than you have? All you are going to get from them is their own thoughts and opinions on reality and it is going to fall back upon you to decide which ones are the same, better or worse than your own. In the end the only reality you can ever concern yourself with is yours. We can hypothesize an objective reality, free of bias, predisposition, etc. We can all take a stab at what that might be like but it is always going to be based on how each of us see reality in the first place so any one of us could be right or wrong and you might be right more often than someone who seems to you to have "better" thoughts and opinions.

When someone says that X is the way that it really is they are just guessing. You could come along and say that Y is the way that it really is and be just as correct because there are no means to actually determine how it really is.

Whenever anyone says anything about anything they are sharing their concept of reality. If I say that jumping off of a tall building will kill you that is simply a statement of how I see things. It is something I learned in my journey through life. I have every reason to believe that you have learned the same thing. If I say that GWB was a lousy president that is also just something I learned along the way. You might see it differently. Both are beliefs/opinions/thoughts that I have. If I explain them and they make sense to you perhaps I can change your view of reality, make it seem to you to be better. It may or may not be but as long as you are happy with the results that is all that matters.

I have the feeling that you are referring to the conscious look at reality, when I'm speaking about that "fictional and imaginative". Yes, I have my own specific conscious look at reality. The problem is that I might have not lived long enough to create or formulate my own look at the one I am trying to dissect in this topic. Sure I respect individualism, but I also belive that to much of it cant be good.


Edited by Willowz on 07/01/09 - 05:48 AM

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oag
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Posted 06/14/09 - 10:48 PM:
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#29
Willowz wrote:

I have the feeling that you are referring to the conscious look at reality, when I'm speaking about that "fictional and imaginative". Yes, I have my own specific conscious look at reality. The problem is that I might have not lived long enough to create or formulate my own look at the one I am trying to dissect in this topic. Sure I respect individualism, but I also belive that to much of it cant be good.
I don't really follow you. It seems to me that you believe that if you live longer you will gain access to something other than a broadened conscious look at reality. You seem to want a shortcut to some ultimate perspective on reality rather than taking the long road that all of us must face.

In the end you are only ever going to have your individual perspective on reality. You can take flights of fancy into other imagined realities but you will always end up back in yours. Getting other people to tell you about their individual perspectives on reality may help you broaden or refine yours but it won't help you gain knowledge of or access to an objective reality because they can't give you that any more than you can get it yourself. Your quest for knowledge and wisdom are good things but there is no shortcut. Your reality will only change with time and experience.
Willowz
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Posted 06/15/09 - 12:18 AM:
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#30
oag wrote:
I don't really follow you. It seems to me that you believe that if you live longer you will gain access to something other than a broadened conscious look at reality. You seem to want a shortcut to some ultimate perspective on reality rather than taking the long road that all of us must face.

In the end you are only ever going to have your individual perspective on reality. You can take flights of fancy into other imagined realities but you will always end up back in yours. Getting other people to tell you about their individual perspectives on reality may help you broaden or refine yours but it won't help you gain knowledge of or access to an objective reality because they can't give you that any more than you can get it yourself. Your quest for knowledge and wisdom are good things but there is no shortcut. Your reality will only change with time and experience.

The truth is that when I am asking this question about reality, there is another question behind it: "Who am I?"... Why should there be one road, or is it death? Do you already have the answer? I am a little hasty, because these topic's aren't easy to understand and after a while you just need some time to digest it.

This song will prepare you for a good smile.
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